In response to close pass reports, South Yorkshire Police are now sending this as a response (see Alt Text for easier read version). Is this acceptable/correct? @timon2wheels.bsky.social @cinsp-ksmith.bsky.social @bikery.bsky.social @saferroadsyorks.bsky.social - ThreadSky

ppushbike.bsky.social • 85 days ago

In response to close pass reports, South Yorkshire Police are now sending this as a response (see Alt Text for easier read version).

Is this acceptable/correct?

@timon2wheels.bsky.social @cinsp-ksmith.bsky.social @bikery.bsky.social @saferroadsyorks.bsky.social

Comments

saferroadsyorks.bsky.social•85 days ago

We've been here before. There are ways a close pass can be determined. The Highway Code is clear on what constitutes a close pass.

andydenizen.bsky.social•85 days ago

Seems like a 'loophole' to bin more marginal cases of closepassing a cyclist, for workload purposes. Looks like assessment will still take place, for clear cases - similar to TVPs apparent requirement for 'incovenience' to have been suffered by the cyclist.

timon2wheels.bsky.social•85 days ago

It could be used like that, but this is my interpretation: https://bsky.app/profile/timon2wheels.bsky.social/post/3lczhb4erjk24

pcorfe.bsky.social•42 days ago

Most of the reports I submit to TVP result in action. For the ‘inconvenience’ requirement, that’s quite straightforward…explain that the extreme closeness of the pass frightened you and played on your mind for quite a while afterwards, also it helps if you shout something at the time of the pass👍

jimswheels.bsky.social•42 days ago

Shouted "Spanker" this morning at one such.

cinsp-ksmith.bsky.social•83 days ago

I can’t really comment on what colleagues are emailing. If you check my timeline you will see a recent conviction at court for a close pass along with video. There was no forensic expert statement on that file.

sh3zz4.bsky.social•85 days ago

If they get too close to me, or they're close and going at speed, you can always hear me swearing, and I will point that out on my submissions, along with any dimensions I can get off Google maps and the vehicle dimensions.
Also worth having a sample photo, showing a car 1.5m from your bike.

timon2wheels.bsky.social•85 days ago

The photo distance also faces the same problem. Using Google maps is the best solutions, especially for forces which are making this interpretation. I discussed with my own force and they had no plans to change practice. My reply: https://bsky.app/profile/timon2wheels.bsky.social/post/3lczhb4erjk24

sh3zz4.bsky.social•84 days ago

I've learnt over the years to give them as much information as possible, in the hope that it makes their lives easier to prosecute. I include a standard still photo, with my bike 1.5m away from a parked vehicle, Google maps measurements and the maths that "proves" it's a close pass.

timon2wheels.bsky.social•84 days ago

Yep. Me, too. Up until recently, I had 100% record with NIPs. Had some warning letters as outcomes more recently, though.

pcorfe.bsky.social•42 days ago

I do the same…the mock up photos show tape measure, are marked up and annotated with dimensions for comparison with the video footage….didn’t need it for my most recent incident, though😬🤦🏻‍♂️

geckobike.bsky.social•42 days ago

jfc. We really need these submissions to be centralised rather dealt with by post code lottery.

What the fck happened to local hallam police that takes these passes seriously

ppushbike.bsky.social•42 days ago

To be fair, I think they do take it seriously. There's perhaps just some over-interpretation going on.

geckobike.bsky.social•42 days ago

really do think the whole system needs streamlining and a national thing, rather then each force impending it.

decisions to fine should be made quickly out of court, and only go to court of contested.

ppushbike.bsky.social•42 days ago

The latter is what already happens.

gazza-d.bsky.social•85 days ago

It's bs.
I had a chat with a officer from my local force (Northumbria) a while ago about a marginal pass

He explained that they use markings on the road via Google earth to gauge distances to see if action is needed.

This is just NYP trying to avoid work frankly.

timon2wheels.bsky.social•85 days ago

There's some truth in the statement (see my post, https://bsky.app/profile/timon2wheels.bsky.social/post/3lczhb4erjk24).
Most forces are carrying on as normal and are not facing problems with the small number of offences that go to court. That may change, though.

aracer.bsky.social•85 days ago

I recommend doing the work for them by providing a calibrated image with the distance marked on it - mark the distance on the road and ride past it using the same camera

timon2wheels.bsky.social•85 days ago

That is likely to face exactly the same issue. It's better to use an externally-verifiable calculation using something like Google Maps in the written statement. That's effectively what they are asking for. This was my interpretation: https://bsky.app/profile/timon2wheels.bsky.social/post/3lczhb4erjk24

aracer.bsky.social•85 days ago

No, it’s nonsense

cyclopsdave.bsky.social•85 days ago

passing at 1.6m can be too close (depending on context) and passing at 1.4m can be ok (depending on context)

Passing a bike is not the same as passing a fixed object, you need to give the bike wriggle room i.e 1.5m

Passing a bike as it’s wriggling round a grid would be an ok pass of less than 1.5m

cyclopsdave.bsky.social•83 days ago

Good example of a close pass that’s not a close pass
https://x.com/CitizenUddin/status/1866966495416422707

timon2wheels.bsky.social•85 days ago

Some of it is true, some of it is a misinterpretation and some is poor communication. This has been discussed for over a year at the police national working group on road crime. At the last meeting, I made the following points:
1/6

timon2wheels.bsky.social•85 days ago

• some of the activities of assessing close passes could be covered by the act;
• it would be good if the officers who were assessing reports were trained in how to 'read' video evidence;
2/6

timon2wheels.bsky.social•85 days ago

• an assessment of a close pass can be undertaken without the training (and most forces continue to do so, including SYP);
• the videos are not forensic evidence, they are evidence that the driver was involved in an incident with a cyclist;
3/6

timon2wheels.bsky.social•85 days ago

• together with the statement, the video provides evidence of whether a driver drove without care and/or consideration;
4/6

timon2wheels.bsky.social•85 days ago

• forces should guide cyclists submitting road crime reports, that information in the statement on distances calculated on Google maps and on the impact on them as a cyclist will assist in securing action against the driver.
5/6

timon2wheels.bsky.social•85 days ago

My interpretation is that they are trying to do 6. in the email. Distracting with the technical internal challenges isn't helpful at the point of communication.
There should be some new online workshops on how to do this from the Road Crime Reporters Network.
6/6

tony-jones.bsky.social•42 days ago

Interesting last paragraph? So. if a driver dangerously close passes a gnarly old commuting cyclist who's been exposed to that behaviour for decades, no action will be taken, even though his next victim could be traumatically affected. Nonsense, surely it's the crime that is punishable?

paul-onabike.bsky.social•84 days ago

In Derbyshire, very rarely do they prosecute. Warning letters are the norm, with personal experience being that less than 5% result in NIP's being sent. To be fair I've never had a driver closely pass twice, and I have recognised a number plate or two since they have received a warning letter.

paul-onabike.bsky.social•84 days ago

This is the CPS take on the Act, it's not quite what the Police are claiming in the statement.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/forensic-science-regulator-act-2021-and-forensic-science-regulators-code-practice

ppushbike.bsky.social•84 days ago

📌

williamnb.bsky.social•42 days ago

This might help:
https://www.willcycle.com/2023/01/18/making-a-good-op-snap-report/
along with this:
https://www.willcycle.com/2023/06/27/truth-matters/

williamnb.bsky.social•42 days ago

That is absolute bullshit. This is where you need to urgently refer that to the NPCC, as it is an outright lie.
Also try and contact Andy Cox, who doesn't seem to be on here yet.

ilminstersteve.bsky.social•85 days ago

Sounds like they have decided that close passes shall be ignored. Unless you have a calibrated 1.5m stick attached perpendicular to the centre line of your bike.

timon2wheels.bsky.social•85 days ago

That's too strong an interpretation, but the communication does raise these concerns. Here's my interpretation: https://bsky.app/profile/timon2wheels.bsky.social/post/3lczhb4erjk24

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