The question "should you have sympathy for and offer support to people who don't care to put effort into their own well-being" isn't always easy to answer. - ThreadSky

peark.es • 6 days ago

The question "should you have sympathy for and offer support to people who don't care to put effort into their own well-being" isn't always easy to answer.

Reposted from Chris Hayes

People’s reactions to these stories tend to be of the leopards-eating-faces variety but this is a great piece of reporting in part about how voters very disconnected from politics make their choices.

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/202...

Comments

kate10010.bsky.social•6 days ago

This one…. Some people/ couples become truly desperate (not derogatory) due to infertility. Hard to say how much is nature vs social but people making bad decisions in pursuit of procreation is literally a tale as old as time.

snarkey1.bsky.social•6 days ago

No, because they’re taking everybody down with them. Trump had close to 40,000 documented lies-and you’re going to believe campaign promises?

greenbirds.bsky.social•6 days ago

Or mine, which people conveniently leave out when defending her.

jmood88.bsky.social•6 days ago

It’s very easy for me to say that I will never have sympathy for people who put known racists in power. It’s clearly hard for white people, which is why we’re in this world right now.

ddza110.bsky.social•6 days ago

Right now my sympathy is reserved for the people suffering through this who *didn’t* buy into it. Once again our media is more interested in the stories of Trump voters, even regretful ones, rather than the stories of people in the anti-MAGA majority who have existed throughout this awful decade.

vealllc.bsky.social•6 days ago

My sympathy is worthless, untransformative, and it doesn't matter where I aim it or what I do with it. I can't imagine anyone asking for it

ddza110.bsky.social•6 days ago

True!

tradergg.bsky.social•6 days ago

we make time for what we consider important. In this country so many don’t want to think about politics& don’t read/research. Politics affects everything at some level or another. It’s delusional to think one can stay isolated from it. So in today’s day and age no excuse not to be informed.

mariabustillos.bsky.social•6 days ago

It's not even relevant. Either you believe everyone should have access to a decent job and health care or not.

katiecannon.bsky.social•6 days ago

Do We the People deserve to have our government issue our national currency in Our Name?

Or just in Musk’s Name?

peark.es•6 days ago

not sure I agree it's not relevant but I firmly believe the latter two things and always will.

mariabustillos.bsky.social•6 days ago

That makes the question so much easier, because it is legit hard to have sympathy for villains or assholes, but since even they should get to live in a decent society you don't have to worry about the sympathy part... just work for the decent society

peark.es•6 days ago

I don't actually think it does because the decent society is contingent on activation of one set of voters and persuasion of another set, and figuring out the right way to do that is challenging!

mariabustillos.bsky.social•6 days ago

All too easy to get bogged down in questions of persuasion, voting, sympathy, merit, etc and lose sight of the decent society

gilmored85.bsky.social•6 days ago

At this point, it feels like the question is less "should we have sympathy for/offer support to ppl who dont care to put effort into their own well being" and more "should we still keep doing that after the third or fourth time they do the same destructive thing"

gilmored85.bsky.social•6 days ago

Like, personally its hard for me to get behind the "well they just didnt know this would happen" position given that we're ten years into the Trump era, last year was the third time in a row he was on the ballot, & he was actually president once. Its not 2017!

theraseth.bsky.social•6 days ago

the issue here is that mainly her crime seems to be “believing the news”

peark.es•6 days ago

right, or just "not disbelieving everything a major political candidate says" which, I mean...dumb! not evil!

glocks4interns.bsky.social•6 days ago

I dunno, replace "major political candidate" with "Donald Trump" and the sentence changes a lot? If you didn't know he had a history of lying in 2024...

peark.es•6 days ago

this person is 24. I reiterate she was dumb about this decision, there is not debating that. but tuning out is not the same moral decision as assessing holistically and embracing.

peterdebode.bsky.social•6 days ago

Well, lets consider the context here. She isnt some kind of freshly arrived half literate Latino guy with limited language skills looking up to Trump as some kind of richer version of himself. She has a Master degree ! And her political literacy is Tiktok 10 yr dementia level ? Are you kidding me ?

dumblawyer.gobirds.online•6 days ago

A lot of people (including the news organizations doing these profiles) should do some introspection about how so many Trump voters could be woefully misinformed about basic aspects of his candidacy.

peark.es•6 days ago

now that I agree with though ofc she cites non-traditional media as shaping her views in the specific instances where she does refer.

dumblawyer.gobirds.online•6 days ago

Like maybe we should get a leopard-eat-face piece about an NYT editor or a Politico columnist who sanewashed, downplayed, & obscured what Trump was running on. I think that would be more helpful, honestly.

nonplussed73.bsky.social•6 days ago

You think this woman was getting her news from the NYT, etc.?

jacksonarkland.bsky.social•5 days ago

Agreed. Also, from a purely pragmatic perspective, the only way we are going to get out of this mess is to persuade several million of the 77 million Trump voters to turn against the administration. As much as I disagree with her vote, I have sympathy for her and take no glee in her suffering.

jenebbeler.bsky.social•6 days ago

The distinction between dumb/incurious and evil is important. This is why news outlets have a responsibility to report the reality and not act as transcription services.

peterdebode.bsky.social•6 days ago

News as in 30 secs of Tiktok one time only combined with a 10 yr news blackout ?

johnbrownstan.bsky.social•6 days ago

It's a hard one. It's not like someone reading the NYT or whatever would come away with the impression that this was a bald faced lie, because mainstream news orgs think it's unfair to call out obvious lies

insavga.bsky.social•6 days ago

Anyone sentient enough to actually cast a vote had all the information anyone could need to know that Trump would be a worst-case scenario for all of us. I'm sorry the media, courts, even Dems, etc. didn't make that plain enough for low-info voters, but really, come on.

peark.es•6 days ago

I think in this specific example given the reporting we are talking about a woman who made a mistake and knows that, not someone who has repeatedly doubled down.

gilmored85.bsky.social•6 days ago

Right, I meant in general, which I also took your original post to mean.

peark.es•6 days ago

I still struggle mightily to have sympathy for her, but is it ethical to deny her comfort (even at remove) over her own stupidity as opposed to mendacity or cruelty? I don't know, probably not.

glocks4interns.bsky.social•6 days ago

Reading the article I think this is poorly framed. "Should you sympathize with someone who made a stupid selfish choice?" Seems more fair and uh, I feel bad for her for being fired and wanting a kid. But someone's selfish vote backfiring is not something I much care about.

glocks4interns.bsky.social•6 days ago

Fwiw this article ducks
"Most people in Baldwin like President Donald Trump; more than 62 percent in Lake County, which includes the town, voted for him in November and in 2020. But people don’t talk about it. Politics here, at least until recently, felt removed from everyday worries."

Bullshit.

glocks4interns.bsky.social•6 days ago

She felt bad because of Trump's history with women. But nothing is said of his cruelty to immigrants or queer people or black people. She was selfish and stupid.

FWIW this article illustrates the tiktok problem more than the media problem, aside from being shit reporting

tipsymcstaggr.bsky.social•6 days ago

I’m from Michigan and call bullshit on people from Baldwin not talking politics. That’s prime Trump country where everyone waves their Trump flags and have erotic fantasies of kidnapping Whitmer.

glocks4interns.bsky.social•6 days ago

Yeah it was just such a red flag (pun not intended). The article talks about how she felt intimidated by her family posting about trump!!

tipsymcstaggr.bsky.social•6 days ago

Baldwin and Lake County have an unusually high black population for rural Michigan. That’s why it’s only 60% Trump. The white population there is probably about 70% Trump.

thepreaux.bsky.social•6 days ago

It is hard to let someone launder their image after they clearly state they overlooked their values for personal gain.

aprile529.bsky.social•6 days ago

And this clearly shows her "family" is a bunch of Trumpsters, so how hard did she really look into who to vote for? And do we have proof she really voted for Biden, I mean, her family said all of Trump's victims were liars or deserved it and she decided to vote the same way they did.

bft.wtf•6 days ago

Yeah, sure, you should have sympathy, but if you find your sympathy is less than infinite there are probably more deserving targets of sympathy; like every single fired worker who didn't vote for this

peterdebode.bsky.social•6 days ago

She didnt show any reflections on what Trump would mean for others. Now, expecting something that isnt reciprocal usually doesnt even work in monkey colonies.

peark.es•6 days ago

One other thing about this story: if you haven't dealt with infertility, I think it's really important to be cautious about how you react to what it does to people's psychology. I'm not going to elaborate further other than to say all people who desire to reproduce should have the right to.

zatapatique.bsky.social•6 days ago

I think this is true of all "life events that happen or don't happen the way they are supposed to in the 'natural' order of things". Early loss of a parent / child, disability, etc ... whenever you grasp that background detail about someone, find the extra bit of empathy if you can

peark.es•6 days ago

yes definitely. though infertility can drive...unique reactions. IRL I see this from anti-abortion protestors for instance. the fiction that does best highlighting it IMO is Handmaid's Tale.

jarekfa.bsky.social•6 days ago

Which makes her choice so odd since the Dems are very pro-maternal reproductive rights including IVF and this is part of their "brand" while half the GOP thinks IVF is/requires murder.

mrgoh.bsky.social•6 days ago

Trump promised it would be free. That helped her ignore everything else.

hoptimusprime.bsky.social•6 days ago

Yep. Infertility is awful and incredibly frustrating and you should feel for anyone who has to go through it. That said, intentionally naive doesn’t begin to describe this person.

mrgoh.bsky.social•6 days ago

She seems about as politically engaged and knowledgeable as the median voter, though.

huckelcommasean.bsky.social•6 days ago

As someone going through it right now, just cannot comprehend how anyone can actually think *Donald Trump and the republican party* will give you free infertility care. Thats not “politically unconnected ” that’s “living under a rock for your entire life” unconnected

noongoon.bsky.social•6 days ago

100%. We have been there and I have nothing but empathy for her. It is a brutal thing to go through. The notion of grabbing on to something that suggests hope out of desperation is extremely familiar.

dctrojan.bsky.social•6 days ago

I just find it fascinating - like genuinely, I'm not being particularly sarcastic - that she was like, I found a stable job doing something that matters and it never really crossed her mind that a GOP administration might be hostile to that b/c it was a federal government job

dctrojan.bsky.social•6 days ago

I guess it boils down to the fact that I've always taken the GOP at their word that they wanted to demolish government, but the question was how much they thought they could get away with, and voted accordingly (among other reasons). Obviously others have not been seeing it that way.

janusroberts.bsky.social•6 days ago

It’s hard when the ? is “should you be sympathetic to people who wanted a better life for themselves but explicitly at the expense of everyone else.” Hard not to sympathize with peeps who want a better life for their families but at what point does the “harming everyone else is fine” kick in?

pensandlighters.bsky.social•6 days ago

There’s going to be a lot of people like this in the next few years and rebuilding the party (and the country) is going to depend in part on whether we integrate them or not.

reallyreallyreal.bsky.social•6 days ago

No it is. These Nazis and traitors deserve to suffer and die. Fuck them forever.

ruoshuiresearch.bsky.social•6 days ago

Machiavelli vs Keynes

Need more former for now

But there's a significant risk of flipping too late as trust in institutions is further eroded

cadencecivet.bsky.social•6 days ago

I can’t answer it aside from “I wasn’t paying attention” isn’t a defense for reckless driving, nor should it be a defense for reckless voting

jrcranston.bsky.social•6 days ago

Context really helps here too...for all those that are "losing" with this administration, contrast it to those that invariably are "winning" - the elite of the elite. the ones who had all the information, and voted for it. chose this. all for a few extra fractions of the pie.

cpo10za.bsky.social•6 days ago

Not sure how you got that from this particular article. This woman seems to be doing everything she can to “put effort into her own well-being” & future. Including the ways she put thought into her vote.

peark.es•6 days ago

she made zero effort to actually assess whether Trump was being honest or what the holistic picture of her choices were, by her own repeated admission. she just assumed it would be okay to use a TikTok clip as the basis for her decision. that's how I got that from the reporting.

cpo10za.bsky.social•6 days ago

Not trying to start a debate/fight. I guess I just have a problem w your stark characterization in this case. She gave thought to her vote & how it could improve her life, she & her community aren’t politically immersed — & to the extent that they are, they signal to trust Trump’s campaign promises.

cpo10za.bsky.social•6 days ago

https://bsky.app/profile/nicholasgrossman.bsky.social/post/3lj6frubihk2b

allen745.bsky.social•6 days ago

Also. I’m surprised how
many of you can still get passed the Wapo paywall.

peark.es•5 days ago

I have a sub included with my Bloomberg Terminal. Can’t unbundle it and you can only view it as plain text through the Terminal software.

jacksonarkland.bsky.social•5 days ago

The article is on Apple News as well.

allen745.bsky.social•5 days ago

I’m still reeling from the “passed” I’m jet lagged in Europe- honestly hoping that was an auto correct and not
my need for readers.

allen745.bsky.social•6 days ago

All for me and none for thee selfishness doesn’t work in the long run ? Who’da thought?

When the came for the Jews ….
(You know the rest)

paulcrider.liberalcurrents.com•6 days ago

It's purely pragmatic. Can we convert these people into effective resistance voices? Answer will be case-dependent.

acreed.bsky.social•6 days ago

While there can be many complicating factors influencing a decision, I’ve realized a la Trump is he is a blank slate which those disconnected from politics project their own ideas on. I do think people (in general) need to feel the consequences of their actions to change this approach to politics.

peark.es•6 days ago

some people yes for sure, and no doubt that she is indeed feeling them.

stevezorowitz.bsky.social•6 days ago

I will have much more sympathy for these people if they promise to vote Democrat up and down the line in 2026 to try and rectify their mistake.

peark.es•6 days ago

I'm willing to give them <1 month to figure out how they plan to react.

metafizikal.bsky.social•6 days ago

this is the exact type of person who was fed a lie, believed it, and now has to deal with the consequences. unlike some others, gloating with a “fell for it again” meme here feels sick. i do have sympathy for her ilk, because i want them to be by my side in fighting the fascists.

tavamamma69.bsky.social•6 days ago

If she voted for trump out of selfishness, she wont be "by your side fighting the fascists". This is nothing more than selfishness on her part - had she kept her job, you would never hear her complain. The other problems to her is water to a duck.

kentindell.bsky.social•6 days ago

I dunno, terminally offline people do have some culpability in their own fate.

peark.es•6 days ago

there's a difference between "have some culpability" and "she's getting what she deserves, hooray"

davesrants.com•6 days ago

It also shows that with simple messaging on healthcare etc she could have been a Dem voter. Stop being in the middle
on healthcare and whether you can deliver it or not start pitching that you want proper public healthcare.

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