I’ve been on a Revolutions of 1848 reading kick the last month or two and I’m fascinated by the intense military campaigns, especially in Germany and Italy. They mostly involve citizen soldiers, with some professionals, and were all kinds of messy. So naturally, it got me thinking of the Civil War - ThreadSky

pptsapper.bsky.social • 130 days ago

I’ve been on a Revolutions of 1848 reading kick the last month or two and I’m fascinated by the intense military campaigns, especially in Germany and Italy. They mostly involve citizen soldiers, with some professionals, and were all kinds of messy.

So naturally, it got me thinking of the Civil War

Comments

guynamedpaul.bsky.social•129 days ago

Any books you'd recommend on the topic?

pptsapper.bsky.social•129 days ago

Scroll to end of thread

thenonreferentialit.com•129 days ago

Revolutions by @mikeduncan.bsky.social if you are willing to listen to a podcast.

the-real-panr.bsky.social•128 days ago

If you're looking into that time period, I might suggest looking into Giuseppe Garibaldi.

pptsapper.bsky.social•130 days ago

American Civil War West Point-produced officers, of both sides, were mostly aware of the Crimean War (1853-56) & looked to that conflict for examples on operations & logistics. Famously, George McClellan had been an observer there. Some say Lee thought his 3 July ‘63 attack was inspired by that war

finch4077.bsky.social•130 days ago

1848 especially in Germany always fascinated me. Any English book reqs appropriated.

frodenygaard.bsky.social•130 days ago

Clarks book is good. You might also want to check out the 1848 series of the Revolutions-podcast by @mikeduncan.bsky.social
Highly reccomended!

finch4077.bsky.social•130 days ago

Thanks will do

amfisher.bsky.social•130 days ago

Reading "Revolutionary Spring" by Christopher Clark right now. So far, heavy on the social background (i.e., 200 pages in and we're still in the 1830 French rebellions), but well-written.

finch4077.bsky.social•130 days ago

Thanks,

pptsapper.bsky.social•130 days ago

However, the Crimean War was mostly fought by nation-states against other nation-states with (mostly) professional armies. Which Civil War armies absolutely were not. Lots of citizen soldiers, with hardly any training, randomly equipped, thrown into the fight to sink or swim (mixing metaphors, ope)

pptsapper.bsky.social•130 days ago

If a US Army officer wanted to do some professional development on current operations in 1861, 1848 and the counter revolutions in 1849-1850 would have offered a much better example. Lots of citizen soldier armies making the same mistakes the US and CS armies would make, time and again

pptsapper.bsky.social•130 days ago

Everyone was facing incredible logistical difficulties. North German professional troops marching on south German rebels had to cross pretty much the whole of modern-day Germany. Austria was fighting armies in Hungary and Italy and Sicily and in Vienna itself! Like, screw the Hapsburgs but respect

pptsapper.bsky.social•130 days ago

Armies of citizen soldiers backed up by professionals clashed with the same type of armies. Fighting ranged from sieges to open warfare to guerrilla fighting. And it was messy, political, and looked a lot more like our Civil War than did the Napoleonic Wars or the Crimean War. Which brings me to…

pptsapper.bsky.social•130 days ago

Did US and CS officers look to Crimea because it was the most recent war? Or more so because it was a conventional conflict? The US Army has a terrible habit, going back to the early 1800s, of focusing solely on the wars it *wants* to fight. It likes conventional, nation-state conflicts.

alexdecampi.bsky.social•129 days ago

I have bad news for you about the British army’s truly epic logistical / supply chain fuckups in the Crimea

But also I’m guessing that was the war U.S. officers were looking to because at least half of it was fought in English— and young officers may still have had UK relatives to visit

mightfo.bsky.social•122 days ago

Only tangentially related but you may enjoy this stuff about problems in the austrian military prior to ww1(especially mid 1800s) https://cohost.org/Mightfo/post/4414124-lately-im-trying-to

noorryan.bsky.social•130 days ago

Could you assess, through the same comparative approach, the War of the Triple Alliance, contemporary/slightly posterior to the US Civil War?

briw74.bsky.social•130 days ago

Too many US Army officers were stuck on garrison duty in the West.

amfisher.bsky.social•130 days ago

So the battle of Balaclava had a good outcome in the end.

aiabx.bsky.social•130 days ago

I have thread bubbling up in my brain now comparing the Charge of the Light Brigade to Pickett's Charge.

jesse.lansner.com•130 days ago

Someone had blundered. (That someone was Robert E. Lee.)

gummitch.bsky.social•130 days ago

They stand comparison. But, of course, the Charge of the Light Brigade *was* a charge; Pickett's Charge was not.

pptsapper.bsky.social•130 days ago

I think Alma was the battle that bore a comparison to what Lee intended with his July 3 attack

buckeroo303.bsky.social•130 days ago

Pickett's Charge has more in common with the advance of the Imperial Guard at Waterloo tbh, with many of the same factors at play (desperate last throw-of-the-dice, mass small-arms volleys, well-sited artillery, etc)

aiabx.bsky.social•130 days ago

I think I'd work on the theme of elan vs cannon fire.

pylos.co•130 days ago

Sorry to thread-jack, but the 1848-US Civil War connection is also interesting for how events in the former ended up providing some of the population to support the latter (mostly in the Old Northwest)

bocadelperro.bsky.social•130 days ago

St Louis was also thick with 48ers and it's one of the main reasons St Louis stayed Union.

pylos.co•130 days ago

Yep that whole German population basically changed the trajectory of Missouri through strength in St Louis!

elmonoenano.bsky.social•130 days ago

Did you get a chance to read Of Age? Are you seeing anything similar in the '48 stuff? I'm curious how much of the younger soldiers is due to Napoleonic innovations with the levee en masse and how much of it is uniquely American?

pptsapper.bsky.social•130 days ago

I haven’t, no

elmonoenano.bsky.social•129 days ago

It's a treat when you get the chance. I learned a lot about US society I didn't know

briw74.bsky.social•130 days ago

The massed infantry assault at Solferino had a significant influence on Lee and the decision to attack on the third day at Gettysburg.

amfisher.bsky.social•130 days ago

Always model your attack on a battle so horrible that it helped create the Red Cross and the Geneva Conventions.

joedalziel.bsky.social•129 days ago

Perhaps Lee might have looked for a more recent example of infantry assaults on entrenched positions... Fredericksburg maybe? 🤷

amfisher.bsky.social•128 days ago

If only he had any familiarity with that battle.

lezurko.bsky.social•130 days ago

Ever read The Anatomy Of A Revolution by Crane Brinton? It was assigned reading in a history course on revolutions I had decades ago. Fueled a lifelong interest in why nations disintegrate, decline or collapse.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anatomy_of_Revolution

andrewbrinton.bsky.social•130 days ago

Of note also is how 48 influenced the ACW in that the Midwest was populated by those who had fled Central Europe.

sylviawoodham.bsky.social•129 days ago

OMG I want to know more about this too. Make a movie about this

jrfanboy.bsky.social•130 days ago

Good thread, thank you

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