Featuring quite the most amazing moment of voter interaction I have ever witnessed. thecritic.co.uk/reap... - ThreadSky

roberthutton.co.uk • 104 days ago

Featuring quite the most amazing moment of voter interaction I have ever witnessed.
https://thecritic.co.uk/reaping-a-bitter-harvest/

Comments

terrypasta.bsky.social•104 days ago

Kudos to Barry Gardiner tbf.

jimhulbert.bsky.social•104 days ago

That is the symptom of a broken system. He can sell some of the land worth so many millions to pay it, like everyone else would have to.

jimhulbert.bsky.social•104 days ago

Actually, at half the rate I would have to, and he has 10 years to do it and I don't. Sick of the special pleading.

jimhulbert.bsky.social•104 days ago

Someone should ask these farmers how on earth they managed before this incredibly generous tax break was introduced, because they did, and that's what they'll have to do again.

anneporcheron.bsky.social•104 days ago

Quite. Capital transfer tax was a higher rate, and agric property relief is 40 years old, it's not a long time in the context of farmers talking about the importance of continuing to keep farms in their family down several generations.

jimhulbert.bsky.social•104 days ago

Driving me nuts. It's like the whole media landscape is reverting to feudalism to placate wealthy landowners.

roylonergan.bsky.social•104 days ago

The only reason that land is worth so much is that it includes a capitalised value for the tax exemption.

charlotsmoore.bsky.social•104 days ago

Just excellent Robert!

londondiscuss.bsky.social•103 days ago

That 0-50K is describing 'profits'. Profits are after costs which include wages, dividends, and every single expense they can load on. Ask that farmer how much they take home and often you'll find a rather different story.

roberthutton.co.uk•104 days ago

The Great Tragedy of British Farming Expertise.
https://thecritic.co.uk/reaping-a-bitter-harvest/

cjbill.bsky.social•103 days ago

These people in London on social media, is that Richard Lloyd-Weber, Jeremy Clarkson and James Dyson. Hang on Dyson sodded off to Singapore post Brexit didn't he?

gedw23.bsky.social•103 days ago

Probably true the Treasury has seen £££ & not thought of the effect on people- but… worth pointing out it’s ‘the last straw’ & other straws include any attempt to move the current framework to something more sustainable

hern.bsky.social•104 days ago

Reckon I could make more than £0 a year if you gave me £5m of farmland. Would probably start by selling the farmland back to someone who wants to pay £5m for an inheritance tax dodge and then investing the cash though

roberthutton.co.uk•104 days ago

Well obviously farmers ought to sell up and do something useful, like journalism. The question is whether this is what the govt *wants* to happen, and ministers are lying when they say it isn't, or whether they're telling the truth about their intentions, and they don't understand their policy.

rickchasey.bsky.social•104 days ago

Surely aligning land value closer to what you can make from producing stuff, rather than as a tax wheeze is *good*

roberthutton.co.uk•104 days ago

It is! But it's complex to get there. Imagine all house prices fell 75%. Objectively, a really good thing. But for some people, tricky. And achieving this goal may also create difficulties on the way.

rickchasey.bsky.social•104 days ago

If IHT is the only reason that land value is so high there are bigger problems in farming than the tax rate when they die.

mehero.bsky.social•103 days ago

When tricky disadvantages the rich it becomes too tricky. Labour is trying to bite a bullet. The Tories all knew it needed sorting.

mgreenaw.bsky.social•103 days ago

Oh no! It's complex! Best do nothing then!

mehero.bsky.social•103 days ago

Sale and lease back?
They would quickly discover that their £5m asset is only worth £1m

dsquareddigest.bsky.social•104 days ago

there is no other industry except possibly football where people are allowed to go "well yeah I suppose mathematics works in your world of numbers, you can prove anything with facts" and be taken seriously

dsquareddigest.bsky.social•104 days ago

(this used to be true of the arts but not for at least a decade)

celestialweasel.bsky.social•103 days ago

Since the arts have largely given up?

eyebrowsofpower.bsky.social•103 days ago

Nah that's all of politics now. People have had enough of experts, and their fancy "arithmetic"

rickchasey.bsky.social•104 days ago

“I make £30k off £5m worth of land” - mate, I have some advice for you….. you’re not gonna believe it.

northernash.bsky.social•104 days ago

But Dan, this might imply that those with massive vested interests in paying less tax may be being deliberately obtuse in order to maintain their cushy financial position.

Would people just do that, lie for money????

alanf.bsky.social•104 days ago

Obviously you could do that but if your family has owned the farm for a generation or two and you love the life then it doesn't really seem fair.
The problem is that the land price is artificially high.

pjdenyer.bsky.social•103 days ago

And one of the reasons the price of land is so high is that it can be used as a tax dodge. It's a vicious circle.

mrdylankeeling.bsky.social•103 days ago

It seems entirely fair, actually. Why should one single family own a potentially national asset for more than a generation or two?

alanf.bsky.social•103 days ago

What exactly is a "national asset"?

mrdylankeeling.bsky.social•103 days ago

In this instance, huge tracts of farmland that I'm always told are feeding the country, and only exist at a loss, due to government subsidies. No idea why the government doesn't own them as by the farmers' account it would be a more efficient system. They could all be government leaseholds.

seanclarke.bsky.social•104 days ago

Farmland is basically taxdodge bitcoin. Please use both sides of the paper

yellsonpolitics.bsky.social•104 days ago

Just start a glampsite

dataarchitect.bsky.social•102 days ago

The issue is that very wealthy people in the UK buy farms and woodlands as these are exempt from inheritance tax. There are also some very large farms which would benefit from being split as it would enable more people to get into the business. These 2 groups should be taxed.

officialstehee.bsky.social•103 days ago

Farming is not “often reported to be in crisis” it has only ever been reported to be at death’s door. For decades as each season passes there is another story of a poverty ridden farmer facing ANOTHER existential crisis. I have never seen a happy farmer. Have you?

neverella.bsky.social•104 days ago

📌

finchwrites.bsky.social•103 days ago

There is an excellent Mitchell and Webb sketch in this vein (vain?) https://youtu.be/_pDTiFkXgEE?si=okksaaQ1krVaSZiZ

brushingboots.bsky.social•103 days ago

10/10! Steve Reed has definitely only just learned that a hectare and an acre are not the same thing

davidogle63.bsky.social•104 days ago

Who’s the saying farmers are vastly rich? The argument is that IHT will *only* hit the vastly rich. I’ve not read any commentator saying that the problem is farmers are rich. The tax loophole is being exploited by rich *non-farmers* buying land for investment. Your comment seems very disingenuous.

dcash.bsky.social•103 days ago

Robert is simply concerned for the millionaires in our community.

jodami.bsky.social•104 days ago

He’s right. Nobody would believe that.

leelangford66.bsky.social•104 days ago

If they have 5m in assets, there's an obvious way in which they can afford to pay tax. Like the rest of us. Right?

jaypee28bpr.bsky.social•103 days ago

Why would anyone stay in a business generating a 1% return on capital as this farmer claims he’s earning? Why not just sell up, invest in 10 year gilts, and get >£200k/year, guaranteed for a decade? It’s not just IHT is it? Farmers get showered with subsidies as well.

yaesohn.bsky.social•104 days ago

Sounds like a skill issue.

rickchasey.bsky.social•104 days ago

How on earth can land that yield so little profit be worth so much?

swollendanube.bsky.social•104 days ago

Curious, these assets that produce no revenue but are somehow worth millions. Where does their value come from?

paulchandler.bsky.social•103 days ago

The land.

swollendanube.bsky.social•103 days ago

Ok, let's follow that logic through. If the land isn't worth anything as farmland, then it must be something else driving its value. What could that be? Its usefulness as a tax dodge.

paulchandler.bsky.social•103 days ago

The housing crisis.

swollendanube.bsky.social•103 days ago

Close, but the other way around. Inflated agricultural land prices are reducing housing construction: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/house-prices-building-farmers-protest-tax-b2649877.html

paulchandler.bsky.social•102 days ago

Did you read your own article? That's talking about a specific LA requirement to pay a premium. And specifically says land with planning permission costs even more. That's not making any kind of point that backs you up.

Housing has gone up and up whilst LAs have had funded halved.

bringthenoise.bsky.social•104 days ago

That’s weird, I saw lots of very similar interactions whenever someone told the previous government how Brexit made their life harder.

timbleshanks.bsky.social•104 days ago

You say: “Carmichael pointed out that, until a month ago, that advice would have been to hold onto the farm until death. Now it was apparently to have given it away seven years ago.”

As APR has been at 100% for 30 years and tax changes, good advice before the change would be to give it away!

roylonergan.bsky.social•104 days ago

They don’t trust the kids so they’re scared of not being able to reserve a benefit.

timbleshanks.bsky.social•104 days ago

As they say, IHT is the tax paid by folk who trust the kids less than the Government….

matruman.bsky.social•104 days ago

TBF, that would have landed you with a professional negligence claim. But a gift now can be protected by a 7 year insurance policy.

timbleshanks.bsky.social•104 days ago

Why, where is the loss?

matruman.bsky.social•104 days ago

There’s a tax-free uplift of the value for CGT purposes on death - beneficiary takes it at current value. If gifted, the gain is held over - beneficiary takes it at (broadly) the donor’s original cost.

timbleshanks.bsky.social•104 days ago

Of course but as you will know most tax planning involves a compromise. If IHT is the issue and the farm is being retained by the recipient then the lack of CGT uplift won’t generate a tax bill.

matruman.bsky.social•104 days ago

True, and that’s why planning will now change, and why I don’t think normal farms will actually get caught (until they sell land). But it is the reason no-one would have advised it 7 years ago.

gj4man.bsky.social•104 days ago

I mean that's basic maths, Rob.

No one sane is going to spend £5m on a farm that will supposedly yield £50k pa when the Bank of England will pay you £238k pa to look after it for you.

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