reading all this great reporting and the thing i want to do is interview some people who know how this system works both like technically and logistically. feel like we all need more context. so if you can nerd out on this signal me @cwarzel.92 talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/musk-... - ThreadSky

cwarzel.bsky.social • 19 days ago

reading all this great reporting and the thing i want to do is interview some people who know how this system works both like technically and logistically. feel like we all need more context. so if you can nerd out on this signal me @cwarzel.92
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/musk-cronies-dive-into-treasury-dept-payments-code-base/sharetoken/f6ef509c-ac91-4914-ad6d-4b0f6f8abc3b

Comments

shareofpt.bsky.social•18 days ago

Aren't there any tech sisters on the good people side who can take over these systems and capture them?

jdunc17.bsky.social•18 days ago

This might mean that Elon and his gang of teenage crooks now have access to our own personal bank account information, at least for those of us who do direct deposit with the IRS at tax time

tima1962.bsky.social•19 days ago

Someone needs to go right into that building and arrest these people! Who in the F do they think they are? Take them by force if you have to!!

dunnersmads.bsky.social•19 days ago

Well worth watching to the end.
https://youtu.be/5RpPTRcz1no?si=2wM9vzdxC82WMGYp

themaltesemama.bsky.social•19 days ago

dear god having been a mainframe programmer in a previous life & understanding the rigorous testing then migration to production processes & having worked with linux code slingers & their sloppy shoot from the hip lack of processes i am terrified. imagine them getting into the airline systems?

cwarzel.bsky.social•19 days ago

part of my problem is i don’t have this systems knowledge so i don’t even know what’s possible!

themaltesemama.bsky.social•18 days ago

be sure to send any sources you get to @nationalsecuritylaw.org so they can file a lawsuit for them!!!

themaltesemama.bsky.social•19 days ago

yes i hope you can find good sources. but i am sure everyone there is terrified and incredibly stressed.

missvolley.bsky.social•18 days ago

Don’t lose the forest for the trees. Source control and change mngmt rigor are hair on fire situations, yes. Find out about the breath of banking biz operations the systems support. This will lead you directly to the potential crises in the making. How integral are the systems with Fed Reserve?

themaltesemama.bsky.social•18 days ago

exactly. i not only worry about social security checks but also about us treasury bonds. trillions in theft and destruction. destabilizing global markets.

vchapman.bsky.social•18 days ago

What terrifies me is if they now can just delete everything (the running code, the sourcetree, the backups, etc..) then, sure, it has the potential to be a ransomware situation. But, also, its the greatest chance for Randian morons to implement a libertarian fantasy by just wiping it all away.

tiltsatwindmills.bsky.social•19 days ago

Go watch Live Free or Die Hard and see what the bad guys were doing there. You'll get the idea.

themaltesemama.bsky.social•18 days ago

no need i can already imagine.

mixedmessage.bsky.social•19 days ago

Dev is Prod bro. It’s more efficient. Move fast and break things. /s
Christ

aroostookdemocrats.bsky.social•19 days ago

No one is telling us what Musk is doing or why🚨

amcdawes.bsky.social•19 days ago

Best case scenario: they accomplish their goal and find ways to add a secret “off switch” for different categories of payments to wield as leverage against political enemies. Worst case: they fuck up the whole system. If their goal were to improve the system, they would start from scratch. 1/2

amcdawes.bsky.social•19 days ago

2/2: no one sits down in front of decades of legacy code and says “ooh, I can’t wait to refactor this and make it more efficient”. And they sure as hell don’t just start changing things on a production code base unless they know they only have a weekend of access before people catch on

franceslarina.bsky.social•19 days ago

This is a scorched earth tactic - no matter what happens, *all* code they even might access has to be assumed to be compromised. Could be back doors, could be slightly adjusted formulas to make someone extra profit.

veryoddrequest.bsky.social•18 days ago

Its fairly cut and dry at this point. They are creating a tap to stop and turn off specific identifiable payments at the touch of a button at will. They're removing power from the house. Whilst they may authorise funds Trump and Musk will turn off whatever payments process beyond that.Control.

ctryoverparty123.bsky.social•19 days ago

THE DEMOCRATIC CAUSUS MUST MARCH AS ONE ON THE DEPT OF TREASURY!

IT'S GREAT FOR A FEW BRAVE REPRESENTATIVES TO SHOW UP & JOIN ILLEGALLY LOCKED OUT FEDERAL EMPLOYEES AT USAID.

BUT WE NEED FOR EACH AND EVERY DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVES AND SENATORS TO MARCH TOGETHER!

STOP THE TAX DOLLAR STEAL!!!!

kbdnyc.bsky.social•19 days ago

Why the f*%k does he have access to all our most sensitive information? Stop this insanity!

schnorkles.bsky.social•19 days ago

The explicit problems that are going to be faced are probably integrations with other systems.

My understanding is the mainframe here is COBOL, which is going to be a.) a language these idiots don't know, and b.) notoriously obtuse.

There may be some sort of management layer on top of it.

schnorkles.bsky.social•19 days ago

Likely speaking, if they're following good coding practices, the changes they're making should be auditable BUT, a lot of good coding relies on tools that don't interface well with legacy systems. You have to have done a lot of legwork to make all of it work.

schnorkles.bsky.social•19 days ago

But that said, there's no way for them to be adequately testing that the changes they make don't fundamentally break connections with other systems. This is a complex and hard thing to do in systems that are -designed- to do it, it is nearly impossible in legacy mainframes.

getoutofmyway.bsky.social•19 days ago

I've downloaded my Social Security statements and locking them away.

Everyone should do the same.

alwayscorrect.bsky.social•19 days ago

If there was ever a time to use the Software Development Lifecycle processes, this is it. Have a feeling they'll just roll changes out into production and see what breaks in the following months.And will probably ignoring any complaints of missed payments, which will be the main features, not a bugs

billyceeee.bsky.social•19 days ago

I am more and more convinced that the message of the dems needs to be: “hey Ologarchy, give it back”. Promise massive wealth transfer back to the people from these tech billionaires who are losing to China, and using their wealth, built on our backs, to make the government their play thing. Enough.

billyceeee.bsky.social•19 days ago

Yes I know I misspelled oligarchs. I was typing fast but I’m fired up. Republicans are handing Dems a progressive tax platform on a platter.

azsuzeblue.bsky.social•17 days ago

I trust Mark Cuban has reached you.

cwarzel.bsky.social•19 days ago

like, i’m sure it’s as bad as everyone’s saying but i’d love to be able to provide more context as to what people can and can’t do with access…what it looks like to be in those systems, who has power to
monitor it etc etc etc

themaltesemama.bsky.social•19 days ago

does anyone know what platform these systems run on? i think the IRS is still IBM mainframe COBOL? but its been years since i worked in programming.

jenralli.bsky.social•18 days ago

I wish I could find it but I thought I read that it’s COBOL as well as assembly.

jenralli.bsky.social•18 days ago

Here’s one article from 2021: https://www.nextgov.com/digital-government/2021/06/irs-needs-cybersecurity-tools-secure-its-cobol-apps/174439/

bongo-fury.bsky.social•17 days ago

Apparently they merged 30 COBOL dialects into 1

leahmcampbell.bsky.social•19 days ago

I think this is about getting their hands on the I/P. Most private payment processors are terrible at what they do, and many in SV are competing for the space.

shake-fist.bsky.social•19 days ago

Not much context needed. This kid is pushing code to production without testing in a non-live dev environment. I wouldn't do that for a to-do list app, never mind a system responsible for trillions of dollars in payments. I cannot overstate how irresponsible that is.

azsuzeblue.bsky.social•17 days ago

How will we ever know it wasn't already cloned with traces wiped?

morgurth.com•19 days ago

I don't do work for Treasury, but I have done work in other departments that use a mainframe and we are in the process of getting off of it and into the cloud. This onslaught of info on what they are doing boggles my mind. It violates every training or work I've done for 25yrs. Insane.

mark-melbin.bsky.social•18 days ago

Elon Musk can extract the personal/financial details of every US government employee and ship them off to Russia and China for the biggest identity theft fraud operation in history.

Probably.

dbsmasher.com•19 days ago

Sir. Anyone I know who actually managed mainframes are seeing red at this news. And as a distributed systems architect myself I’m mildly freaking out.

jeanmoulin4ever.bsky.social•19 days ago

bossya.bsky.social•18 days ago

Seriously terrifying.

jeanmoulin4ever.bsky.social•19 days ago

The republicans are cowards and it’s time the media starts reporting on them as such!

They do NOT care about this country or respect their oath of office. They care about power !

moon4841.bsky.social•19 days ago

😡

ellenginnyc.bsky.social•19 days ago

Emperor Musk is sitting in the front row while trump sits in the back.

joelcfc25.bsky.social•19 days ago

it seems like only a matter of time before this system just seizes up like a running engine starved of oil. either real people ideologically aligned with them start getting harmed or a payment miss big enough to catch the attention of the wider financial system

welarson.bsky.social•19 days ago

My fear is that code that should be written and tested like nuclear power plant control software is going to be written and tested like social media startup software. Once hastily written software corrupts data there may be no good way to fix things.

franceslarina.bsky.social•18 days ago

That's why I'm calling it a scorched earth tactic. If the data becomes unusable, they still win.

milessekou.bsky.social•17 days ago

Just watch the Meidastouch network on YouTube. Those lawyers will explain it to you!

wwfr3nz.bsky.social•19 days ago

1 word. Chernobyl.

benzeke.bsky.social•18 days ago

Two clarifications: With regards to a system compromised while an admin account is logged in, google NotPetya and Maersk. With regards to software systems that could be modified- public facing and internal web pages are more likely targets than the Social Security payment system. Fun vs. real work.

benzeke.bsky.social•18 days ago

Last, the other obvious worry is the Muskovites have access to incredibly sensitive data and probably can mess with it. Maybe they have some sort of plan, maybe it's just another Underpants Gnome episode. Trump can pardon them all if he wants, and Trump himself has immunity.

benzeke.bsky.social•18 days ago

So, worry #1 is slovenly Muskovite behavior that results in a state or criminal actor loose in the Treasury network. The alien email server at the OPM is a good example. Regarding a code jockey "fixing" their systems- with a few exceptions it's a recipe for disaster.

benzeke.bsky.social•18 days ago

Worry #1: the Muskovites will have top of the food chain admin rights- that is bad enough. User accounts with elevated admin rights should never be used as a primary login. They must be used as needed and briefly. If your system is compromised while you are logged in as an admin they will be used...

benzeke.bsky.social•18 days ago

A hypothetical: they can export info for every Social Security recipient so they can match it with registered Democrats or voters in the Democratic primaries. If they get access to IRS information it will get very ugly very fast. There is a lot to worry about, but some things are scarier than others

benzeke.bsky.social•18 days ago

Database access will be controlled by the same process. My best guess is the Treasury databases are their real target. These will be industry standards like Oracle, and the Muskovites will be very good with SQL, and their tools, AI or otherwise, will enable them to do whatever they want.

benzeke.bsky.social•18 days ago

Access to applications will be controlled the same way. Development systems access- the same. I assume Treasury has many systems developed in house and the source code and dev tools are accessible if your login has been given the credentials to do it. Much of this code will be ancient.

benzeke.bsky.social•18 days ago

I assume Musk etc now have domain admin rights and full control level access for every server and workstation at the Treasury with perhaps a few exceptions. OIG, the IRS and any law enforcement groups might be blocked. IRS info access is very tightly controlled

benzeke.bsky.social•18 days ago

Software system access is controlled the same way. This entire access hierarchy is implemented by a domain- all machines and users login to the domain and it defines what level of access they have. A user with domain level admin rights can change how the domain works.

benzeke.bsky.social•18 days ago

Desktop support staff have admin rights that allow them control over a number of user machines. Desktop support staff are typically admins of machines used by a specific group of users. Servers have a different set of admins and they often are also workstation admins

benzeke.bsky.social•18 days ago

Administrative rights are a hierarchy that defines levels of access to various systems and devices. Most users are limited to just using the basic functionality of their machine. A step up would extend admin credentials to their machine so they could install software.

benzeke.bsky.social•18 days ago

Treasury is huge. 80+k employees and many contractors. Access to all network devices is controlled by your login. Most users have very limited rights- they cannot even install apps on their personal machine. That is handled by admin groups with that task either hands on or via systems software.

chrisleno.bsky.social•18 days ago

Yes, please, we need to understand better the consequences.

sunnydayssmile.bsky.social•19 days ago

I keep saying this - it’s a coup from within!!

missvolley.bsky.social•18 days ago

Please! What really needs to be understood is the processing and functions beyond acct payable. The potential interference with SS payments etc. is certainly horrible, but there is gotta be more. Find people to understand money center banks (eg. CITI, BOA) treasury functions with Federal Reserve.

patrickwyman.bsky.social•19 days ago

Talk to @nathantankus.bsky.social

kleinman.bsky.social•19 days ago

Yes

infullbloomus.bsky.social•18 days ago

Our best hope is that the code is so old, perhaps written in undocumented Assembler or COBOL, that none of #Muskin's kiddoes will have a clue.

notlost-drsmith.bsky.social•19 days ago

Trump has empowered Musk to be a "civil officer" of the US government. That makes him subject to the impeachment clause of the Constitution.

Introduce Articles today, against both of them.

"...all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed...on Impeachment for, and Conviction of..."

dwightmc.bsky.social•17 days ago

Who will impeach him?

Republicans control Congress and SCOTUS. They are enabling the gutting of the checks and balances in our Constitution. Which means they are giving up their legal powers and letting Trump's chaos agents run wild.

therealmeganadams.bsky.social•19 days ago

With you!!

kmc71662.bsky.social•19 days ago

I cannot believe this is happening!! This is devastating! @housedemocrats.bsky.social @senatedemocrats.bsky.social
Please do something to stop these ppl-

gtetonbeautiful.bsky.social•19 days ago

He has root access. He can change, delete, delay files. Remove targets payments, redirect payments. There are no checks on him bc the last guy to stand up to them was forced to early retirement(Dave Lebryk). BTW, I worked w him years ago, most principled & ethical person at Treas. W r worse off now.

chrislhayes.bsky.social•19 days ago

Hard same!

missvolley.bsky.social•18 days ago

What needs better understanding is the breath of bank biz operations the systems support. You must know experts in NYC who can elaborate. There has gotta be much more than “ accts payable”. Think Federal Reserve.

patriciajohnst.bsky.social•19 days ago

No more CSpan televising votes!

dwg15.bsky.social•19 days ago

@nathantankus.bsky.social

lljack.bsky.social•18 days ago

2. enter and at least detain muskrat and his kiddos for questioning? It is blatantly clear laws have been broken, that millions of American citizens have been raped for their private information. I bet I get crickets on these questions.

lljack.bsky.social•18 days ago

1. Riddle me this. I hear of "access being blocked" to various places democrats and others on the side of law and sanity, are trying to enter. Who or what is blocking them? Armed guards? Locked doors?
Why isn't someone getting law enforcement, military police or whomever to open doors?

jofromeurope.bsky.social•19 days ago

Wow
they have to check the vote computer software and Search for his code

jofromeurope.bsky.social•19 days ago

Ain't you worried they instaled back door programs.
Giving them acces whenever they want to whatever they want.
The whole system is compromised.

merpocalypsenow.bsky.social•19 days ago

@aoc.bsky.social this has to be stopped? this is illegal? What can congress do - are the lawsuits to be filed?

goodgazda.bsky.social•17 days ago

This is an outrage! Class action lawsuit!

gravel3032.bsky.social•19 days ago

There is no need for context imo. Full admin rights to a system is just that.

"With great power comes great responsibility."

There's one thing missing in the equation with this example

bongo-fury.bsky.social•17 days ago

Responsibility Musk doesn't have and his minions have even less.

openartdata.bsky.social•18 days ago

Ask the tech groups on Linkedin

dwg15.bsky.social•19 days ago

@nathantankus.bsky.social would be a good start. He has some sources.

fenderp.bsky.social•19 days ago

Just finished my employee 2025 Cyber security training. So Musk is the Spearfisher...we are all screwed.

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