I think we should use words like “good” “bad” and “worse more.” That way we could talk about how America has always had many horrible things about it, but also talk about how the president’s pal did a Nazi salute at his inauguration
Comments
Log in with your Bluesky account to leave a comment
I like to say a moment of acute rising fascism. We've always been fascist and it has been worse before but it is a poignant moment now that needs proactive, collective, and radical action.
It's always had some fascist elements, not always the same ones for the whole duration, but we are we're definitely waxing towards a fully fascist state.
I've been using The Events to highlight to those open to listening that while America has always kinda been like this, it is getting worse and fighting against it is meaningful. The Events are largely reactions to b the very real progress we were making
A desire to build something genuinely different instead of feeding myths about a glorious, pure past that can be revitalized if we just perform the right rituals.
i think people find it comforting, "things arent getting worse, because they've always been bad". its basically the same thing liberals do to justify inaction, but leftisty. they cant really admit to themselves that things will get exponentially worse
Yeah, I remember being told in history class that poltical apathy is what caused Nazi Germany to be in power for so long... I never really understood that until now...
Though also, people who wilfully confuse "there have always been fascist in positions of power in America" with "America has always been fascist" are basically apologists for fascism.
I still remember, a week into Bidens presidency, COVID still raging on, people posting pictures of the kids in cages that he had just inherited from Trump, as evidence that Biden was no different.
Like, yeah, he should have done what, turned them all out into the street? What was the quick fix?
No, but if you spend all your time talking about how much bad sucks, and you can't present a better option, you have only yourself to blame when you end up with worse.
The solution they went with for the kids was attempting to reunite them with their families.
Yeah, except that isn't what I am yelling at them for. If they were asking for better in a useful, productive way, I would fully support them. But what they were inevitably doing was pretending that bad and worse were the same fucking thing.
You know what he wasn't doing, though? Going to court and spending millions of dollars fighting to deny them access to soap and mattresses.
Like, fuck, these people do as much harm as the right, but at least the right are harming people they hate, not actively working to help their enemies.
People are right to point out that the cruelty doesn’t stop just because the Dems are in power. Gaza should be a blatant example of this. It’s not enough that some of the cruelty gets dialled back a bit for a few years.
...attacking Biden for stupid, often dishonest reasons before they jumped on Gaza as a better excuse to attack him.
Democrats are simply not as bad as Republicans. That doesn't make them good. It just means that if you attack them without that context, you contribute to making things worse.
You never exactly know what is considered "reasonable criticism" from y'all, so all the people you're complaining about could've been being reasonable in their minds but you decided it wasn't. I was told constantly by liberals my criticism of Gaza was not reasonable because Trump was worse.
eeh there is a point to it in perspectives outside of comfortably living in the US and the lens of viewing fascism as a process, but this kinda meme does sum up how grating and useless it is to make it a gotcha for people that finally see the alarming reality of full on fascists being in power
Pretending things can’t get much much worse than they’ve been in the past is a mistake. People are looking for excuses to smugly do nothing at all and this kind of thing gives it to them.
this is especially annoying because you could already say that with the meme template if you followed the normal dialogue. "this is the most fascist America has ever been" "The most fascist it's been so far" etc
The people who claim America was "always" fascist are useful idiots contributing to the project of making the term meaningless. Like, no bitch, it's been an imperialist police state! That's a different thing! Fascism isn't just When Government Bad!
Well… not fascist. Imperialist yeah and being imperialist is bad but it is kind of like hitting a dog with your car or attaching a thermal rocket to your car and slamming it into a maternity ward on purpose.
I think previously it was more imperialism and oligarchy, this is the first time I'd say the rule of law is utterly dead and it's a fascist authority in power
The Nazis looked to the USA for inspiration and the USA didn't oppose the Nazis until a non white nation attacked them. No the nation built on slavery and genocide has always been fascist and has been the best at continuing fascism.
"A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism."
ah, so, we're only half-fascist. hill worth dying on
I really don't think you understand the gap between America's racist policing and the SS. Or the difference between American journalists reporting on bribery vs Putin having them thrown off buildings for criticism of the regime.
Shit can get worse and it's worth making a distinction in vocabulary.
words mean things, but some concepts dont have universal & fixed meanings. what constitutes fascism is something that is widely debated. as modern fascism repackages and camouflages itself to avoid being identified for what it is, challenging what qualifies as fascism is totally valid imo
Ima be real, referring to a non-European nation as “nonwhite” in a way that implies they weren’t one of the most powerful and imperialist nations in the world at the time is kind of benevolent racism.
The USA didn't oppose the genocide against Jewish people they just opposed the fact that Japanese people, people that are not white, attacked them. The Nazis just happened to be in a military agreement with imperial Japan. the USA wouldn't have attacked Nazi Germany if that weren't the case.
That's true, but meanings also evolve over time (for better or worse). For instance, i don't think Elon is a card-carrying member of the National Socialist German Workers Party. But if it talks like a Nazi, walks like a Nazi en salutes like a Nazi, isn't it fair to call it a Nazi?
Kids have been watching clips of cops abusing people their whole lives, they've been hearing about us enabling and persecuting wars too. They know about McCarthyism and the FBI killing MLK and Fred Hampton.
They don't realize how much worse it can be.
I mean... manifest destiny and jim crow inspired the nazis directly. It's definitely had a lot of fascism in it for a very long time. Maybe not always late-stage-WWII-level fascism, but that's not the only kind of fascism. "Bad" and "worse" seem like they would apply here.
Fascist doesn't just mean imperialist or colonialist, it's a specific kind of reactionary thought that's certainly existed in parts of society, but the country as a whole was still liberal (rights to vote and personal liberties).
It also doesn't mean just when an explicitly fascist leader is in charge doing seig heils from center stage. There are stages, it doesn't happen overnight. It's like when you get a cancer diagnosis, you definitely had cancer before it showed up on the scans.
Ty, fascism is defined by a highly specific set of characteristics it isn’t just when the thing is bad, it’s not more moral when the left just throws the word around to describe a thing you don’t like bc the right does it
I'm partial to the idea that -- if I was to oversimplify -- and boil fascism down to just one thing, it's a kind of radical anti-intellectualism where the People instinctively know what's right and if you have to ask what that is or think it could be debated, you're not one of the People.
I'm looking at this and both parties tick most of the boxes, even if Rs tick more and harder. It's a phenomenon defined by a cluster of traits, not a binary. It's like asking if you have an illness: it is a diagnosis; not something that happens on one single day.
I think the problem here is that people think I'm agreeing wholeheartedly with the comic. I think it is reductive, and unhelpfully so, but it has a kernel of truth, that fascism isn't new to the US, not even since 2016. Open fascism is different to creeping fascism, but they're both fascism.
Yes, they do lead to fascism. I would say the seeds of fascism exist from the moment a monarchy is liberalised and the ruling class begin plotting how to return to totalitarianism. If people want to pretend there's no fascism in Biden's genocide idk what to tell you. It led to Trump. It matters.
That's because Biden's a neoliberal. So many neoliberal regimes have support, funded, and/or directly executed genocides. That doesn't mean they're fascist. That's not to say it's okay what they did, just to say let's stay accurate. It matters.
I just want to check something, so we're on the same page: I said fascism isn't a binary; that it exists in degrees, and the diagnosis of it is a description of a phenomenon from a cluster of traits. Do you disagree with that?
Comments
Facts matter.
Like, yeah, he should have done what, turned them all out into the street? What was the quick fix?
Like yes Republicans are far worse than Democrats but we don't need to be going to bat for either of them.
Bad doesn't become good just because worse exists.
The solution they went with for the kids was attempting to reunite them with their families.
"The solution they went with for the kids was attempting to reunite them with their families."
And this required them to still be in cages?
Like, fuck, these people do as much harm as the right, but at least the right are harming people they hate, not actively working to help their enemies.
"Scratch a liberal, and a fascist bleeds" they say, but all they want to do is scratch fucking liberals and give a smug grin as things get worse.
You can make nuanced criticisms that aren't based in false equivalences.
I agree that Biden was very bad on that specific issue, but I have a lot more respect for that critique from people who weren't already...
Democrats are simply not as bad as Republicans. That doesn't make them good. It just means that if you attack them without that context, you contribute to making things worse.
It was.
And it fucking hurts to see it ripped away.
Both are bad but one is a bit worse.
ah, so, we're only half-fascist. hill worth dying on
Shit can get worse and it's worth making a distinction in vocabulary.
They don't realize how much worse it can be.