Writing this weekend about citizenship. I'd welcome insight from those of you not born British but who chose to become British. How many years after? Was it pragmatic, identity/emotion, both, for you? Does citizenship matter? Should we encourage it? Is 5-6 years OK? What about 15 years? - ThreadSky

sundersays.bsky.social • 114 days ago

Writing this weekend about citizenship.

I'd welcome insight from those of you not born British but who chose to become British. How many years after? Was it pragmatic, identity/emotion, both, for you?

Does citizenship matter? Should we encourage it? Is 5-6 years OK? What about 15 years?

Comments

marstrina.bsky.social•114 days ago

I moved here in 2001 & applied for in 2015 after Cameron called the EU referendum. I'm not from the EU, but I worried that Brexit would intensify anti-immigrant feeling & embolden the far right. For me, citizenship was protection from being arbitrarily deported (a bit dramatic, but I am Jewish, so)

almostconverge.kozterulethasznalatienge.day•114 days ago

i know you didn't ask us who chose not to (yet) but maybe the other side of the coin is useful too:

i am very much part of my local community and i'm as integrated as you can be, yet i don't feel british to the slightest

now if there was such a thing as yorkshire citizenship...

almostconverge.kozterulethasznalatienge.day•114 days ago

...okay, that's obviously a bit tongue-in-cheek but not by much

while i can absolutely see and feel the cultural identity that makes yorkshire yorkshire, there's nothing of the sort i see for the whole of the united kingdom

almostconverge.kozterulethasznalatienge.day•114 days ago

and in purely practical terms i'd gain zero rights apart from voting in general elections (which let's face it, not really a big draw), it offers me no extra protection (as i could be stripped of my citizenship at the drop of a hat) but it'd cost me a lot of money and one of my existing citizenships

richardelwes.bsky.social•114 days ago

You’d get a British passport - whether that’s a good thing would depend on what your current passport is (and whether you can have two). My wife is keen to keep her Japanese passport & hasn’t taken British citizenship. But a Chinese friend saw a new British passport as a definite incentive.

almostconverge.kozterulethasznalatienge.day•114 days ago

i can see that but for me personally (an eu citizen mostly travelling in europe), a british passport would actually be a massive downgrade

richardelwes.bsky.social•114 days ago

Yes definitely

femmigjec.bsky.social•114 days ago

100% agree

andraswf.bsky.social•114 days ago

This is a very good point: I think the fact that the Home Secretary can just unilaterally deprive us of citizenship and we have no recourse is an outrage.

almostconverge.kozterulethasznalatienge.day•114 days ago

yes, in my opinion that's what parliament/government should act on if they want more people to take up uk citizenship: the practical things

make it cheaper, focus the process on helping to integrate rather than filtering out applicants and make it less second-class

almostconverge.kozterulethasznalatienge.day•114 days ago

that's all you can realistically influence as a government, the feeling of attachment will come later if you're doing the practical stuff right

femmigjec.bsky.social•114 days ago

100% agree

andraswf.bsky.social•114 days ago

THE PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF YORKSHIRE

almostconverge.kozterulethasznalatienge.day•114 days ago

it is true though, whenever i went to places like london, merseyside, scotland, wales, i could feel people had an identity that connected them to that place

and i feel the same whenever i return to yorkshire

sundersays.bsky.social•114 days ago

Thanks. That wasn't a deliberate omission! Thanks for your input too

radiohoax.bsky.social•114 days ago

Not me, but my housemate at the time when the EU referendum happened was Finnish. She'd been perfectly fine living in the UK for 15 years as an EU citizen, her decision to apply for UK citizenship was 100% pragmatic. She was self employed and worried Brexit might make it harder to run her business

mlungu.bsky.social•113 days ago

Honestly, I have no desire to become a citizen, since a way out for my family when the whole thing falls apart seems like a better idea than locking myself into death spiral with a UK passport.

nathanielgraham.bsky.social•114 days ago

So I was born two weeks early in 1978 in Belgium to a Belgian mother and Canadian father who were resident in the U.K. Arrived here as an 8 day old but only became ‘legally’ British when I was 22. Bit pissed off with my parents for not sorting it out before if I’m honest.

nathanielgraham.bsky.social•114 days ago

Needless to say I only ever considered myself to be British but also why I think being born on a country’s soil is such an arbitrary factor. How do those eight days make me any less British than Kemi Badenoch who grew up in Nigeria?

nathanielgraham.bsky.social•114 days ago

And as for my mum flying when she was that heavily pregnant to go to a wedding. Well, no comment

sundersays.bsky.social•114 days ago

Thank you for sharing your story. Many people won't spot the main consequence of the Cons proposal could be on a large cohort of UK-born children

nathanielgraham.bsky.social•114 days ago

And I’ve still got the ticket. Seems as far as the airline was concerned I didn’t even have a first name

sundersays.bsky.social•114 days ago

That's amazing that you have that!

sundersays.bsky.social•114 days ago

Alberto Costa MP (Cons,) on the case for encouraging citizenship, when he led the independent inquiry in 2020. We had a very broad coalition for this approach at that time
https://www.britishfuture.org/citizenship-inquiry-report/

sundersays.bsky.social•114 days ago

Or who didn't (yet), or chose not to
https://bsky.app/profile/almostconverge.kozterulethasznalatienge.day/post/3lhk7lt6rs22o

janetmsageobserver.bsky.social•114 days ago

OH, a New Zealander is reluctantly after 40 years. In part the problem is dual citizenship with 2 nationalities. So although my family are all NZ, I don't hold citizenship there. And UK citizenship for OH can be removed if you leave. He had a Scottish grandfather, but that is tricky to follow up.

femmigjec.bsky.social•114 days ago

1. Dutchie. Lived & worked: both paid & voluntary, in Wales from 1999. Started BC application in 2003 w -then- ELR appl. After 3+mnts I contacted HO to ask for my passport back: my mother in NL was very ill. Snotty response& to top it off they lost my passport. Decided i didn't like to be ....

femmigjec.bsky.social•114 days ago

2. Treated like that, plus pay a wad of money only to be able to vote in UK elections. Until 2016. Reluctantly applied, just in case the referendum wld go wrong. Now a reluctant dual citizen. Feel more Welsh than British. Sickened by legislation that treats us like 2nd class citizens, even though

femmigjec.bsky.social•114 days ago

3. We work hard, volunteer and put up with rediculous hostile environment rhethoric of right & left politicians and media. How do people expect we 'integrate' while constantly being hounded and blamed for circumstances caused by government failure & politiciansselfish greed?
Rant over.

simonbm.bsky.social•114 days ago

It should be the aim of the state to align inhabitants and citizens as much as possible. Citizenship is a sort of contract with a state with duties and rights. It is not a certificate of ethnicity.

simonbm.bsky.social•114 days ago

So the thing about obtaining a new citizenship, which I have done, is you need the rights and accept the duties towards those you live amongst rather than those you ancestors lived amongst and drop any unnecessary sentimentality about ethnicity or identity, which you’re free to have as a hobby.

aliromah.bsky.social•114 days ago

Check out https://www.scottishrefugeecouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Becoming-British-citizens-Experiences-and-opinions-of-refugees-living-in-Scotland.pdf

annikabrandberg.bsky.social•114 days ago

I've been here 36 years from Sweden. Before Brexit I didn't need British citizenship, after Brexit I don't want it.

sundersays.bsky.social•114 days ago

Thanks for sharing your perspective Annika

bettinaj.bsky.social•113 days ago

3/3 information only revealing itself as you reach that page on the form, having to sign the back of photos that need to be attached and digitally uploaded (?) on and on it went.

bettinaj.bsky.social•113 days ago

2/2 from having to trawl back over three years of leaving and returning dates each time I went to visit my parents for a weekend, trying to prove I have been here (tax returns and bank statements/ bills don’t count), chasing non existent tax numbers, remembering the date I arrived here in 1989…

bettinaj.bsky.social•113 days ago

1/2 Just been approved after 35 years here. Never thought I’d need it. Thoughts of a Farage government and remigration and possibly banning me from accessing NHS / pension made me reconsider. My family are here. I have had settled status since Brexit. The process felt like harassment.

tikvahchai.bsky.social•113 days ago

Such a risk. Got caught out by the beginning of what became the hostile environment, with my marriage falling apart, and then major surgery. 23 years here, disabled and I don't dare draw attention to myself lest my indefinite leave to remain is revoked.
If you'd like more detail, I'll share in DM.

mehero.bsky.social•114 days ago

I waited 4 years after becoming eligible. The trigger was (Maggie era) hearing myself say "my bloody government" instead of This, or Your.
When it came thru 18mts later, I looked at the oath, and waited till the last possible day to swear it, because I still didn't feel ready.

rhordosy.bsky.social•112 days ago

Arrived in 2010 to study, then stayed to work in unis - didn't fancy my chances back in Hungary. Sensing the direction of the referendum I sorted my paperwork before 2016 & got citizenship soon after (so within ~6-7 years). The stability & chance to vote in general elections was key. 1/

rhordosy.bsky.social•112 days ago

I don't particularly feel British (e.g. I refuse to eat "meals" made purely of carbs) - though it's funny to straddle boundaries as and when it suits me. I certainly feel at home in Sheffield & have a great network across the country. I also 💜 raising a bilingual kid who travels Europe regularly. 2/

rhordosy.bsky.social•112 days ago

The suggestion of 15 years (and obsession with nrs in general) just shows the complete lack of understanding (or disregard) of immigrants' efforts and contribution to Britain. The hypocrisy of the immigrant/expat discourse never fails to anger me... 3/3

sundersays.bsky.social•112 days ago

Thank you for sharing your experience Rita

craiggrannell.bsky.social•114 days ago

Mrs G is EEA and never felt the need. Until Brexit. The entire process was an expensive shitshow, right through to the govt sending paperwork dated weeks after the deadline for booking the ceremony (thereby technically making the offer invalid). Fortunately, county council was on the case.

craiggrannell.bsky.social•114 days ago

I think she felt it was necessary but with how Britain has gone and how outright hostile and expensive the entire process was didn’t exactly feel welcome. Only when HCC took over did she feel any positivity in the process.

Anecdotal but I’ve heard similar elsewhere.

craiggrannell.bsky.social•114 days ago

Personally, I’d say we should encourage citizenship of those who want it (and who are able to have dual). But do so honestly. Drop the bullshit and the barriers. Streamline the process. Make it affordable. And 15 years is absurd. The current numbers are plenty.

alexsz.bsky.social•113 days ago

£2000 is way too much for it, would consider £50. I contributed to the UK economy for 10 years, should be enough. My vote on PE is worth nothing in Hackney, and I am not planning to move, no other benefits I can see. Also, fuck the monarchy, I don't want to be a subject.

andraswf.bsky.social•114 days ago

Should be a lot easier, cheaper, but it shouldn't be mandatory in order to be part of the community

sundersays.bsky.social•114 days ago

Thank you. Encourage is not insist, but it is not agnostic.

Could make it easier & yet be agnostic. (Some left/liberals).

Or be agnostic so treat it mainly as £££ (govt)

Or reduce because want to encourage it (my position)

Or make it harder to say it is special so should be difficult (Badenoch)

craiggrannell.bsky.social•114 days ago

Would argue govt is not agnostic. The entire process is a filter designed to weed out those lacking the cash and time to invest. (I know you mentioned £££, but the stupid tests and other shit add further burdens that put it beyond some folks regardless of money.)

andraswf.bsky.social•114 days ago

it's already pretty hard and a lot of it is just cash grab

sundersays.bsky.social•114 days ago

Yes. We found a very broad coalition for these proposals
https://www.britishfuture.org/citizenship-inquiry-report/

adamcain.bsky.social•114 days ago

You implicitly raise (another) objection to Badenoch's position, which had not occurred to me; that it would create a large group of residents forcibly excluded from loyalty to the British state.

A sort of reverse Tebbit cricket test.

lynnjbirds.bsky.social•113 days ago

I teach English and 2 of my students finally got their citizenship after years of limbo. They both experienced exploitation in the workplace, and family separation because they could not travel abroad while waiting. Why do that to people? Just to keep racists happy? It's senseless.

elainecolliar.bsky.social•113 days ago

I’ve been here since I was born 56 years ago - still don’t feel British and never will. I’ve got no idea what a British identity is - it means English identity - right?

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