Cordon sanitaires have been around in Europe since 1945 so if Nick is concerned about democracy now he may need to revisit his view of whether it existed at all since WWII. - ThreadSky

benansell.bsky.social • 31 days ago

Cordon sanitaires have been around in Europe since 1945 so if Nick is concerned about democracy now he may need to revisit his view of whether it existed at all since WWII.

Reposted from Giles Wilkes

I have just, seriously, heard Nick Robinson on Radio 4 ask if Germany can seriously call itself a democracy if the CDU/CSU continue to refuse to include the AFD from consideration for power.

What. The. Actual....

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/...

At around 8:23:00 am

Comments

etotheipiadd1.bsky.social•31 days ago

Sometimes the devil doesn't need an advocate.

rfrbrghs.bsky.social•31 days ago

Re. the consequences of government inclusion in Switzerland where the far-right populist Swiss People‘s Party SVP (with nearly identical positions like the AfD) has been almost continuously in power since 1971 https://bsky.app/profile/rfrbrghs.bsky.social/post/3lirbi7clok2r ⬇️ #btw25

europeannick.bsky.social•31 days ago

An example is exclusion of the PCI from post-war Italian politics, with increasingly complex coalitions.

mlungu.bsky.social•31 days ago

I wonder if he congratulated himself on the clever question he came up with, or if he realises that he is simply pushing a Trump talking point?

davidbburke.bsky.social•31 days ago

Nick Robinson is not really that good an interviewer.

He has a cozy approach to difficult questions that sometimes works, but only when he understands the situation and what questions need answering.

Frequently he just doesn't.

nickdickinson.bsky.social•31 days ago

British commentators walking around asking who “won” the election in a European PR consensus democracy like the guy who sees the colleges and the library and still asks where the university is 🤦‍♂️

benansell.bsky.social•31 days ago

Spoken like someone who has spent a lot of time directing Oxford tourists to ‘the university’ they are standing in the middle of.

nickdickinson.bsky.social•31 days ago

There’s a reason why it’s the classic composition fallacy exemplar.

gsds3.bsky.social•31 days ago

Everything I heard from him this morning was predicated on his audience only ever having encountered a 2 party FPTP system and anything else was weird

craigmranapia.bsky.social•31 days ago

I'll also have to roll my eyes and mirthlessly laugh at the British and American political pundit class poo-pooing Germany's electoral system whose bedrock foundation is... well, the Grundgesetz (Basic Law) that was approved in 1947 by the occupying Allied powers. Including the UK and US.

dsquareddigest.bsky.social•31 days ago

how can the UK consider itself the democracy when the conservatives formed a coalition with the liberal democrats leaving the second biggest party out of power in 2010?

benansell.bsky.social•31 days ago

Where’s your tweet for Gordon Brown eh Elon?

crookedfootball.bsky.social•31 days ago

How many Italian governments included the PCI back when it got, er, rather a lot of votes?

dsquareddigest.bsky.social•31 days ago

and Sinn Fein in Ireland!

bweatherson.bsky.social•31 days ago

And Sinn Fein in the UK.

Imagine the reaction of these pundits if Gordon Brown had talked SF into taking their seats in 2010 and built a wobbly coalition relying on their votes.

benansell.bsky.social•31 days ago

It was one thing for these guys to ask why the Law and Justice Party, who actually came first in the Polish elections, didn’t get to govern. It’s a bit much to say the same for the AfD.

dsquareddigest.bsky.social•31 days ago

this is why I think it is more likely that Robinson is ignorant enough to be supporting AfD on the basis that he thinks it is the local franchise of Reform and MAGA, rather than just asking questions.

mayfaircynic.bsky.social•31 days ago

Tbh, when I first heard it I thought that he thought that the AfD were being excluded from *parliament*.

I'm still not entirely convinced that's not what he thinks is happening.

wallaceme.bsky.social•31 days ago

@gilesyb.bsky.social This is one of the signs that the whole “PR means no wasted votes” message isn’t as clear to the electorate as its advocates often assume.

benansell.bsky.social•31 days ago

If we can’t usually clarify to R4 journalists how it works I fear you are right

chanret.bsky.social•31 days ago

This shouldn't be beyond the wit of a R4 journalist who *checks notes* studied PPE at... *checks notes* uh, a university south of the Midlands

benansell.bsky.social•31 days ago

Can’t imagine where that could be or that I’d ever want to be anywhere near it

wallaceme.bsky.social•31 days ago

I agree, of course. But it’s not a great sign for the message landing more widely.

chanret.bsky.social•31 days ago

Maybe. But reform sometimes comes from people rejecting the devil they know.

wallaceme.bsky.social•31 days ago

That certainly can be true.

martymcd.bsky.social•31 days ago

I'm more than surprised at this given the fact that Nick is Jewish?

borisnorris.bsky.social•31 days ago

Nick was merely putting a question which some are asking. Some people don’t seem to understand what the job of an interviewer is.

juneussell.bsky.social•31 days ago

We know how “Some people might say… ” works. We’re just not sure this is what he’s doing.

borisnorris.bsky.social•31 days ago

Why not?

billn.bsky.social•31 days ago

What does he think of those countries where government is formed with 40% of the vote and the other 60% just have to suck it up.
Surely he can think of one.

chanret.bsky.social•31 days ago

At a more basic level, "1st and 3rd placed party join coalition" is probably the *modal* coalition outcome by some way. If you take the party labels off, I don't think you'd predict the second placed party being considered.

benansell.bsky.social•31 days ago

“Why won’t the winning party coalesce with the main opposition party?” said no theorist of coalitions ever

robfordmancs.bsky.social•31 days ago

OTOH, probably not great either for AfD to be "main opposition party" and thus able to act as repository for discontent with the govt (look how that's worked out LR in Austria with FPO). At least thanks to vagaries of the threshold they likely won't be only opposition party in Parliament

benansell.bsky.social•31 days ago

Heading to NBH now, will drop a copy of Riker off on Nick’s desk

jasonreifler.bsky.social•31 days ago

I wish I could figure out the wording for the Anakin-Padme meme to poke fun at this idea that the second placed party not being in the coalition is an affront to democracy.

will-i-am-br.bsky.social•31 days ago

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👍

chanret.bsky.social•31 days ago

I thought it was more Despicable Me, but tastes vary.

benrathe.bsky.social•31 days ago

benansell.bsky.social•31 days ago

chanret.bsky.social•31 days ago

lots of useful teaching material being generated this morning

alanbeattie.bsky.social•31 days ago

Am I being really dense here or wouldn’t this rule have compelled Labour and the Tories to go into coalition in 2010?

eduardosuarez.bsky.social•31 days ago

Strong meme game, Dr Ansell

snoopster.bsky.social•31 days ago

jasonreifler.bsky.social•31 days ago

This wins!

will-i-am-br.bsky.social•31 days ago

👏-👏-👏- Madness, madness, madness. It's a very stupid family, like father, like son, both are idiots and it must be contagious because of a lack of character, or because they think they know everything. 👏-👏-👍

jasonreifler.bsky.social•31 days ago

https://imgflip.com/i/9laudi

pknapczyk.bsky.social•31 days ago

In Poland we even had nr 1 party not been able to create a coalition, so the government was formed by 2, 3 and 4

chanret.bsky.social•31 days ago

Yeah, that's reasonably common https://www.chrishanretty.co.uk/posts/biggest_party_no_govt/

armchairrsdt.bsky.social•31 days ago

It's just a version of the old idea that "real" free discourse has no limits. Which is revealed as profoundly silly if you look at it for five minutes.

fiftyfloor.bsky.social•31 days ago

Just wait until he hears about Westminster's electoral system.

tonimassari.bsky.social•31 days ago

That does not suprise me. Nick Robina son is ... well ... a rich duck!

marianami.bsky.social•31 days ago

If you can form govt then yes, that’s the majority of people and that’s democracy. 80% of ppl chose NOT to vote for the Far Right, so ofcourse they don’t need to be in govt. FFS.

flawrencec.bsky.social•31 days ago

Impartiality is a wonderful concept but this is being spineless/ silly or plain stupid.

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