I'm a low hour commercial pilot with about 50 night hours in small single engine aircraft. While it is easier to see other aircraft in the sky at night (if their lights are on), distance can be VERY hard to determine with just your eyes. It's also easy to misidentify objects.
Finding another aircraft visually in daylight can be difficult even when one knows where the other aircraft is located. At night, with a million lights on the ground, it can be impossible
We knew it wouldn't be long before the gangster popped off with his opinions about the crash. So very trump. Better to let the experts analyze and explain what happened, at some point, rather than speculate.
I’m not an expert but what I’ve seen so far from knowledgeable people: helicopter might have had another flight in view and it was miscommunication with tower, and/or plane came in lower and faster than usual bc of wind. The angles and speed of air traffic movement are 🤯. Devastating tragedy. 😢
Busy airspace around airport, and at night they're all just lights in the sky. Flights approaching 2 runways (1 and 33). Seems *possible* that heli pilot was looking at wrong jet when it reported positive ID of the incoming flight. (Idk whether military H-60 have collision avoidance systems).
If the helicopter flew below the jet's path, they probably did not see each other. Why a helicopter was in the path of a runway approach I what I want to know.
Yes, I can appreciate someone just providing information showing that accidents happen. We can try 99% of time to prevent things but there’s always one percent that it’s just gonna be an unfortunate accident no negligence or malicious intent.
I said it was a Elon thing- made a drone Blackhawk and Trump targeted the plane in q anon rebellion against whistleblowers- hope it runs in circles with MAGA and maybe create equal shitstorm fucking THEM
The airspace is tightly controlled at that airport and requires radio communication with all aircraft in proximity of the airport. It is all speculation at this time. It could have been an error by either aircraft or possibly controller error. The NTSB will have an investigation.
Isn’t the air control system still the same as was installed in the ‘60s? Amazing that air traffic controllers do as well as they do. Given that the volume of flights over that time has grown exponentially…
There have been upgrades over the years, but by the time a contract is awarded and put into use, it is outdated. Sometimes, contractors went out of business before fulfilling a contract. That happened to a radar simulator at the FAA academy.
I heard him say that last night on the audio at the same time almost he crashed into the regional jet. It was very unsettling. They replayed it several times. It was about 3 o’clock this morning when I heard it on NBC News breaking news. I saw other helicopters, it would be confusing to fly so close
Inbound jets were landing runways 1 and 33. Would've been multiple inbound jets plus local traffic. From the heli's perspective, I wonder how easy that was to sort out at night? Maybe heli was looking at wrong inbound jet? Heli's last confirm of visual ID was 13 seconds before collision.
There is no reason imaginable why they should've been landing on both 1 and 33. They are crossing runways and a recipe for disaster. If that's true, whoever made that call needs to get removed from their position. The only thing worse would've been landing 33 and 15 at the same time.
What I've read in other posts, and it makes some sense: ATC may give an inbound flight the OPTION to land 1 or 33. Choosing 33 allows more departures on 1. That's not the same as clearing parallel flights to land on crossing runways, which #yikes. Assume sequential, with pilot option.
Separation is what is required. Simultaneous landings are only allowed on parallel runways, not crossing. That said helicopter landings are a little different. They can land off a runway. You must still keep them from crossing. Was he operating with night vision goggles? Unknown.
I think that is another misunderstood aviation thing - that being in controlled airspace is safer regarding collision. I've been around airplanes since infancy. Only mid-air I've personally witnessed was two planes, both talking to the tower.
Yes, there are certainly no absolutes. I haven't worked air traffic since 1981, and much has changed, but the one thing that hasn't changed is the human error factor. Who or what tonight is currently unknown.
Yes, I was. Not many people understood the whole thing. A lot suffered, and I had to struggle. The now governor of South Carolina was a US attorney at the time. He took us to court and demanded that the judge put us in jail. He refused.
One thing I can say as someone who has spent a lot of time in DC, there are a lot of helicopters flying around. Have to assume the plane was in right spot and helicopter pilot was just not paying attention to its flight path. Just watching what everyone else is watching so I could be totally off.
Watching the video, it looks like the helicopter is going incredibly fast directly behind the path or on the path of the jet. It does seem suspicious to me.
You received numerous honest answers
Media is reporting a 'transcript' from ATC which suggest the Blackhawk pilot was aware of the plane and was planning to fly behind it. Other than that there is no further information
1.could have been looking at the wrong lights. Easy in a city at night with all kinds of lights both natural & man made.
2. If they were wearing NVGs, it would be like looking through a tube instead of out a large windscreen. So something close to you but not "in that tube" would not be visible
Errors in flight safety only need to be tiny to be catastrophic. You have IFR & VFR air traffic controllers and you have NORAD and several US military bases all operating within that same small airspace and the area around it. A pilot makes a mistake, a controller makes a mistake, it's all it takes
Night VFR is very much a thing here: private pilots need 10 night landings and a 100-mile night flight for example.
Based on radio communications we know the jet was supposed to visually navigate to runway 33, the helo to visually pass behind.
flying at night is tough and flying over water you get alot of blur from all the lights on the ground so an air craft can hide in that glare and make it difficult to see. I can't fly at night anymore because i suffer from night vision blindness.
I’ve been getting up all night thinking of the people who lost their lives tonight in the most horrific way- everyone’s nightmare! 300 people out in the water trying to rescue them, which sadly is a recovery ❤️🩹.
I keep watching the video... And trying to wrap my brain around it. It sure looks like the helo just plowed into the plane. Cannot figure how the plane wasn't seen by the helo. So tragic.
I'm guessing they were both in blind spots. We only see two axes, and don't see the depth of each craft compared to the camera. It kind of feels like the chopper moved into the path of the jet with the jet behind it in a blind spot. Like a freeway merge, but the jet was also descending.
Minus equipment failure We are left with Human Error. Happens all the time, on the ground or in the air. However 99% of the time no one dies. There are likely dozens of decision points that led to this tragedy.
That airspace is actually more regulated because of its proximity to DC. It’s not uncommon to see those helos flying in the area, but this seems like a strange one.
Military helicopter. Specifically coast guard. They have different frequencies than commercial and don't have the same restrictions on commercial air space. This one is going to be on the coast guard for not making sure the approach to reagan was clear before crossing.
That section of the river is a busy corridor for aircraft of all types. Warnings from various regulatory bodies were issued over the years about how frequent close calls happen between aircraft. Unfortunately, it was a matter of time before this happened.
Yes this part of the DMV is absolutely batshit busy with aircraft. I used to live in Crystal City, west side of Reagan, and there was military and passenger craft mixed with law enforcement ALL. THE. TIME.
From the radio traffic, helo pilot was asked if he saw the aircraft. He replied in the affirmative. Is it possible he was looking at the wrong aircraft using night vision gear? I noticed from the video other aircraft in the area.
helicopters go up and down and forward at angle when landing/taking off. airplanes go forward and up. both at incredible speeds. imagine you are driving a car forward at 180mph and a seriously large bumblebee comes down from above very quickly. now add person w many moving objects to keep track of
Hard to say. Helicopter pilot claimed to have the CRJ in sight and was given visual separation. I actually find it much easier to see traffic at night - it's lit up, blinking, and there's less background clutter.
The CRJ was doing a circle-to-land so it's possible the helicopter crew didn't correctly anticipate where the jet was going. Also possible they were looking at the wrong aircraft.
I've definitely made that mistake. When you report "traffic in sight," ATC just has to take your word you're looking at the right one. Very difficult to say for sure though.
So, this was years ago, when Reagan was still National Airport. We were on final approach when suddenly the pilot pulled up *hard*. I looked out the window just in time to see the helicopter zoom by beneath us.
Airplanes can be harder to see than you would think. They are fast moving targets and there are also other things to watch (instruments, approach to the runway, etc. add in darkness and various light pollution and it can be a dynamic environment. Particularly in complex or congested airspace.
Helicopters can *hover*. Planes are moving at 130kts so that’s a massive differential in relative speeds. One of the most “oh!” things I saw tonight was the idea that the helicopter pilot may have been looking at another plane and thought they were clear - just looking at the wrong one.
It’s possible. But both the pilot of the helicopter and the pilot of the plane should have been talking with air traffic control who should have notified them about the proximity of each to the other.
I was young in San Diego when we had a major crash (Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 182
September 25, 1978). It was so traumatic that I never got over it. I basically panic and avoid flying as much as possible. I hope I never need to fly again. I don’t care how safe they say it is.
OMG I remember that one. A Cessna sliced its wing off & someone snapped a photo of it, with flames coming out, in a steep dive toward the ground. I was 12 years old & that picture was on the front page of the newspaper my father got (🇨🇦) I didn’t get on a plane tilI I was 25 & I still hate flying.
A great many people thought it was a drone that attacked the airliner at first. When, in fact, it was a Black Hawk helicopter. I'm not saying it was intentional, it just looked that wa
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https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/s/QlZ8PdO2mY
‼️‼️‼️‼️💔💔💔💔💔
100%
Hello says they have visual of the commuter jet ....and then 😕
I was asking an honest question since I don’t know much about flying at all (and am terrified of flying to be honest)
Exactly what our president is doing.
You received numerous honest answers
You got a lot.
2. If they were wearing NVGs, it would be like looking through a tube instead of out a large windscreen. So something close to you but not "in that tube" would not be visible
Based on radio communications we know the jet was supposed to visually navigate to runway 33, the helo to visually pass behind.
In a city.
With a river next to the runway.
Juan Browne's "blancolirio" channel provides excellent information on aviation. 👇
https://youtu.be/ouDAnO8eMf8?si=zWFY_3F9QFLHvWiU
And why is a helicopter in this flight path to begin with?
What the heck?!
How is a helo anywhere near crossing an active approach to DCA?
https://youtu.be/VwWcQcvuoXQ?si=sxZfX6pNAHPXo-5m
In the best of times, that airspace is dangerous.
The DC one was the closest I came to dying.
I realize it isn’t logical but then I guess such fears never are.
https://youtu.be/ouDAnO8eMf8?si=zWFY_3F9QFLHvWiU
September 25, 1978). It was so traumatic that I never got over it. I basically panic and avoid flying as much as possible. I hope I never need to fly again. I don’t care how safe they say it is.
How?