Yes, the English outlook around class and society is not quite the same as the Welsh (or Scottish or N Irish). There’s lots of nuanced bits of positioning, around the arts and politics as well. Sport. Money. Even race itself. Thousands of tiny differences. - ThreadSky

mirandaemmerson.bsky.social • 11 days ago

Yes, the English outlook around class and society is not quite the same as the Welsh (or Scottish or N Irish). There’s lots of nuanced bits of positioning, around the arts and politics as well. Sport. Money. Even race itself. Thousands of tiny differences.

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mirandaemmerson.bsky.social•11 days ago

Ironically, of course, the Snuffster is quite English…

stephenkb.bsky.social•11 days ago

Yes, often part of being English is, because of our size within the UK, not noticing our own Englishness. (I once said slightly tongue in cheek that 'Englishness' was 'the warm glow of knowing you are the core component in the joint endeavour that is British culture'.)

pwnallthethings.bsky.social•11 days ago

"Englishness is what you have if you don't think about where you are situated within the other nations"

alasdairclark.bsky.social•11 days ago

That’s also an inherent part of the success of the UK though, right? England had to forget its Englishness to make the idea of a United Kingdom, of Britishness, centred, politically and otherwise, around one constituent part work. If it didn’t do that, would it have worked for hundreds of years?

stephenkb.bsky.social•11 days ago

Yep, absolutely.

burtonad.bsky.social•11 days ago

I think I first read this about 3 years ago (after the T&CA came into force). I really enjoyed it, particularly for its examination of the North/South England continuity over 2000 years, and how Welsh, Scots and Irish were involved in phases of the “English” story. https://www.amazon.com/The-Shortest-History-of-England/dp/1910400696

hughmurnaghan.bsky.social•11 days ago

I think to an extent (the 18th Century language of the North Britons) that might be true, but I'd be inclined to argue that in the case of both Wales and Ireland the history behind creation of the United Kingdom was much more about imposing an English identity and rule.

If anything, I'd suggest...

hughmurnaghan.bsky.social•11 days ago

...that the United Kingdom (and Empire) continued to exist over the centuries because of the centralised English control, implicit within ideas of Britishness.

The outside World, looking at what signifies the British identity, will, in almost every case, see English examples.

alasdairclark.bsky.social•11 days ago

Your second point proves my first I think. No matter where I go in the world people recognise Scotland as distinct from Britain. Same is true of NI & Wales. When Americans say “England” they normally mean GB. That’s in large part a consequence of England abandoning its Englishness to create the UK

boredtownboy.bsky.social•11 days ago

I think she sees Englishness as a narrow monoculture based on a set of Home Counties, middle class values which she herself espouses. The idea of a broad culture encompassing a range of values is alien to her. She probably doesn’t even consider working class northerners to be properly English.

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