Look if Amanda Palmer has no haters I am dead- but the number of men I’ve seen post or make content about her in the wake of this Gaiman article is too damn high- talk about your boy instead.
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i think there are a lot of people who feel betrayed by her& i think there's a conversation that we're due to have re women who are accomplices to violence esp ones who claim to be feminists/allies (Palmer, Alice Munro) but it feels like we can't do that btwn misogynists& internet being bad at nuance
How is it not about them - us - when this is the N'th "Harmless Looking Male Creator, everybody loves him" that has turned out to be a full blown psychopath behind closed doors?
it's not about men because the comment i made and the one i was replying to were both about the woman involved and not the man. we're talking about amanda here not neil.
like it's so funny that i mentioned the internet is bad at nuance and that prevents some actual constructive discussion that needs to be had and, lo and behold, this comment
A pattern I do tend to see on repeat is when people get caught by a psychopath/narcissist is the continued attempts to please that unhinged person who can't ever be satisfied - and never will be.
Like a sort of Stockholm Syndrome situation.
I wonder if it's just a malfunction built into people.
The number of women too frankly. I feel like it's easier to speculate about her than it is to speak about him right now. Which I get. But I feel like he's still kind of being shielded by those conversations by dragging the focus off of him.
Also, it's very likely he was abusive towards her as well. Which is relevant. Not an excuse for her. But worthy of as much consideration as the allegations against her.
NG is a monster. His actions are utterly vile and inexcusable. But - just as I understand that someone might choose to kill / rob / etc, even if I think it's wrong or evil. I can see there is a motivation for what he did.
But with AP, if she wasn't actively colluding, then she just... didn't care?
Same with not confirming Scarlett's report to the police.
(Against this, I know we really have no idea about the nuances. And still going through the divorce must complicate things. So I try to reserve judgment.)
If they focus on her they don't have to consider how much of their own fun they have to give up if they focus on him. Harming women is fun, entertainment, for a lot of men. That is what they refuse to let go of when we demand accountability. Fun.
Yeah, like. For as much as she did wrongs in this situation, because hoooo boy, as far as anyone knows, she did not actually rape anyone. If he hadn't raped anyone, she would be at worst a bad friend and a bad person to work for. That was his decision.
Don't let women off the hook, every post that links to the article devolves into "AFP sucks" within an hour and and Gaiman fades into the shadows. "Blame the nearest woman" is a tactical response to Male accountability and too many of us are happy to participate.
For what it's worth I only commented on her because I was a fan of her and not her ex-husband even before this. And my own ex-wife was a huge fan. I really broke my heart to think how she must be feeling.
You're not wrong though, he's the one who committed the rape.
Haven't we known she was shit for like, over a decade? The news here is that he is also shit.
I remember back when they got married all his fans were like "she will ruin him" but hey it turns out he was already the worst!!
No, the news here is He Is Shit. "Also" qualifies the statement and his shittiness doesn't need to be defined by how it relates to her. The circumstances and contributing factors are part of the conversation but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact it begins and ends with him
Like, I definitely think she shares a _piece_ of the blame here; she knew what he was like and chose to send women his way. But NONE of that would have mattered here if HE wasn't committing repeated SA.
When I first read negative stories about Amanda Palmer years ago, I always wondered how much of a "good guy" Neil Gaiman could be, given his support of her. "Birds of a feather" and all that.
I would so much rather see cishet male Gaiman fans put that energy towards unpacking whatever damage from their fathers they’re projecting onto the women in their own lives - a FOUNDATIONAL takeaway from that article, imo - than say a single thing about any of those women
Been searching for hot takes on AP that aren’t purely burn the witch.
She’s a self interested, exploitative, toxic. Cancel her. Fine.
It’s clear she’s been freaking out, worried about her child for a while. I don’t feel saying she’s as evil as NG is fair while she’s forced legally to stay quiet.
Yeah like she’s a shit person for a lot of reasons and some of this stuff is inexcusable but also she was clearly being abused too and the idea that she is somehow on par with him just imo gives him an out for his horrific behavior
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I feel like saying "I won't want to hear from men (in a scenario a man was the greater scope villain in) because it doesn't concern them" is..
Misdirected?
https://bsky.app/profile/kaitensatsuma.bsky.social/post/3lfrwzr6k422v
Like a sort of Stockholm Syndrome situation.
I wonder if it's just a malfunction built into people.
It's just the knee-jerk Boy's Club reaction.
No truer quote have I ever found
No.
i think someone should come up with a name for this phenomenon
Also, it's very likely he was abusive towards her as well. Which is relevant. Not an excuse for her. But worthy of as much consideration as the allegations against her.
And I just hope I'm not falling into the trap you describe.
But with AP, if she wasn't actively colluding, then she just... didn't care?
(And maybe there's a pattern with the not paying musicians, etc.)
This is not as bad as what NG did - not close. But it trips me up more.
(Against this, I know we really have no idea about the nuances. And still going through the divorce must complicate things. So I try to reserve judgment.)
You're not wrong though, he's the one who committed the rape.
I remember back when they got married all his fans were like "she will ruin him" but hey it turns out he was already the worst!!
It's almost a decade later, but here we are.
She’s a self interested, exploitative, toxic. Cancel her. Fine.
It’s clear she’s been freaking out, worried about her child for a while. I don’t feel saying she’s as evil as NG is fair while she’s forced legally to stay quiet.