It's so weird how these articles keep popping up when that price covered TWO SEASONS OF TELEVISION. That's one of the higher per-episode prices in TV history, but it's not incomparable to Game of Thrones or Fallout or...... - ThreadSky

emilystjams.bsky.social • 158 days ago

It's so weird how these articles keep popping up when that price covered TWO SEASONS OF TELEVISION. That's one of the higher per-episode prices in TV history, but it's not incomparable to Game of Thrones or Fallout or......

Reposted from Jesse Hawken

Every penny they spent is on the screen. Why quibble about an expensive project that looks expensive when something like Deadpool & Wolverine cost 250 million dollars and looks like ass? www.forbes.com/sites/paulta...

Comments

jtcaro220.bsky.social•158 days ago

Who cares if people buy and watch it??

thotstream.bsky.social•158 days ago

outside like computer games and cartoons Andor is the only genuinely good star wars product released on a screen in the last four decades

Worth It

emilystjams.bsky.social•158 days ago

Were two seasons of high-budget TV more expensive than one high-budget movie? Yes. Succession has no obvious effects, but its four seasons were almost certainly more expensive than one superhero movie too.

emilystjams.bsky.social•158 days ago

"The economics of streaming are broken and lead to bad outcomes" and "TV shows do not need to cost this much" are both statements I agree with. I do not think they necessarily prove anything about Andor specifically.

emilystjams.bsky.social•158 days ago

Obviously, if I create a TV show, it needs to cost that much, thank you.

shootnrunner.bsky.social•158 days ago

The Crocs budget alone….

chaosgreml.in•158 days ago

Ok so how do I support the “Emily creates a show for hundreds of millions of dollars” fund?

Is there a CEO or someone I need to seduce? (I’m notoriously bad at seduction, FYI)

satchpiglet.bsky.social•158 days ago

Andor is high art and worth every penny, regardless of viewing figures.

thechrischerry.bsky.social•158 days ago

It's the weird way that the article goes out of its way to acknowledge that Andor is very good but that shouldn't matter because money.

brooktrout.bsky.social•158 days ago

There’s gonna be a Skibidi Toilet movie with a $800 million budget in 10 years

beukema.bsky.social•158 days ago

They can continue to shovel money to Tony Gilroy to make SW, as far as I’m concerned.

abrab.bsky.social•158 days ago

Is it still true that streaming also has to have a higher per episode cost compared to network/TV because they don't do residuals until the new contract? So that per episode cost also is a fixed cost but DIsney can bank the profit off of it forever in a way they can't off of say an FX series?

emilystjams.bsky.social•158 days ago

Mostly. The WGA and SAG deals from last year have changed this slightly, but not substantially enough to warrant an overhaul of how streaming does business.

rohmersimpson.bsky.social•158 days ago

I did some back of the napkin number crunching and on a per minute basis, Andor is far, far cheaper than, say, Jurassic World Dominion, Deadpool & Wolverine, etc. It’s not even close.

armandobayolo.bsky.social•158 days ago

And it's the best received Star War, critically and by fans, since Rogue One. I don't know how this represents losing control of SW, especially when their current show is performing well.

jeymien.bsky.social•158 days ago

I mean, that is pretty high in comparison with the other shows though. It definitely shouldn't be comparing to a movie budget but in comparison with the other Star Wars projects - almost twice as much as The Mandalorian's 3 seasons all together (https://screenrant.com/star-wars-andor-budget-acolyte-comparison-op-ed/)

jeymien.bsky.social•158 days ago

On the other hand, any part of that AFTER the two strikes makes a huge difference on price points too. It is eye opening in comparison with past budgets but that may just be the new price points in entertainment now - I think all of the Disney VFX studios have unionized as well. Another difference.

rexs1gma.bsky.social•158 days ago

*Reads byline*

Ah. That’s enough.

deroche.bsky.social•158 days ago

Same.

As soon as I clicked through and realized it was Tassi, I didn't need to read any further.

jasonsteakums.bsky.social•158 days ago

Ahh, Forbes, yeah. Their entertainment coverage has been leaning into a "find a plausibly deniable way to do clickbait for the go woke go broke chuds" formula quite often for a while now

alexmarple.bsky.social•158 days ago

Andor is the best thing Star Wars has done in years. Probably their only good tv show. Spend away Disney. Spend away.

jonsternfeld.bsky.social•158 days ago

Not to mention it's made by the best screenwriter alive and the show is good! What do we care what it costs?

121gigawattprod.bsky.social•158 days ago

Maybe their real issue is that the show illustrates how a revolution begins.

121gigawattprod.bsky.social•158 days ago

Forbes: “Stop telling them how to fight back!”

121gigawattprod.bsky.social•158 days ago

“Or we’ll tank your stock!”

jvenook.bsky.social•158 days ago

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t there also a ton of budgetary chicanery to maximize write-offs, minimize taxable profits, etc., that goes on in these final numbers? Like I don’t doubt that the budgets are getting alarmingly high but I never trust specific figures like this

zachbrand-wiita.bsky.social•158 days ago

On the other hand, is giving so many shows a GoT-level budget a sustainable practice in this era of Peak TV? I loved 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘈𝘤𝘰𝘭𝘺𝘵𝘦 but I think its strengths would have still been there in a lower-budget version that might have survived to an S2 without massive viewership.

emilystjams.bsky.social•158 days ago

The larger business model of giving so many shows such huge budgets is definitely unsustainable, but that's not really the point of these articles. (Also, we're well past Peak TV. The number of shows being made is plummeting.)

zachbrand-wiita.bsky.social•158 days ago

Fair point re: peak TV. Re: huge budgets: I suppose that's what I took from that article, that it was implicitly arguing against shows having huge budgets. But yeah, it wasn't well-articulated. Also, it seems weird to ding "Andor" for a broader trend that has only emerged AFTER its deal was inked.

mattmitovich.bsky.social•158 days ago

100% agree. Probably the same people attempting fuzzy math by comparing Wicked box office to the budget for *both* movies. That’s … not how it works.

expatpgh.bsky.social•158 days ago

It's also one of the only literate and well-made Star Wars projects they've produced in recent memory. I get why Bob Iger cares about the cost, but why would any viewer?

hugetinymistake.bsky.social•158 days ago

The piece seemed written for Bob and not for us

ersatzverite.bsky.social•158 days ago

It's a fair point, but isn't the underlying problem that Andor is not popular while GoT was proven popular before HBO wrote them a blank check. What makes Andor exceptional makes it unlikely to be a crossover hit that will make it successful enough for Disney's purposes.

emilystjams.bsky.social•158 days ago

"Success" matters in a different way for a streaming service. Andor got major awards attention and critical acclaim, and that matters for a service like Disney+, which is trying to attract customers outside of its core family audience. Also part of why Hulu is getting lumped in there in the US.

wsquared3d.bsky.social•158 days ago

I’m really enjoying Andor. It’s obvious they’re cutting back on the number of projects they’re green lighting, canceling losers & focusing on winners. It’s not my money - spend away!

ersatzverite.bsky.social•158 days ago

I was just discussing this with my friend! I totally get the loss leader model for Andor, but I can't imagine it moved the needle on subs enough to be a success. Too niche when contrasted with the rest of the service. My understanding is that Netflix is the only profitable streamer.

emilystjams.bsky.social•158 days ago

That Disney greenlit a second season at a roughly similar budget suggests it moved enough subs to be worth the price point. Like, yes, these companies are losing money on these platforms, and the larger economics of streaming are broken, but this is a weird show to single out in that regard.

ersatzverite.bsky.social•158 days ago

Good point!

I think my views are heavily tainted by sadness that Andor isn't more popular. The alternative is Disney releasing stuff that I have no interest in and makes them money (e.g. Moana 2).

ersatzverite.bsky.social•158 days ago

I know you have been moving into working more in the creative space than the business coverage side of the industry. I follow Feinberg and Sepinwall (is he on here?), any other recs for ppl who are great at covering the business side of the streaming/tv industry?

emilystjams.bsky.social•158 days ago

Joe Adalian is the best.

ecarney.bsky.social•158 days ago

It seems like streamers themselves don't recognize this, though. I suspect they'd do better by cultivating a back catalogue for which people would want to stay subscribed. But the predominant business model seems to be, "Keep pushing out crap to get new sign-ups, and sometimes delete older stuff."

emilystjams.bsky.social•158 days ago

I think this all sucks, but it makes sense to occasionally cull stuff because you have to pay licensing fees to keep it on there, even the stuff you own.

ecarney.bsky.social•158 days ago

Yes, occasionally, but we're seeing more and more of the Zaslav model, with some services removing content that's less than a year old, or even ditching it within weeks of release.

emilystjams.bsky.social•158 days ago

I mean, that's totally fucked, but I do not expect it to become standard industry practice.

blueberrypoison.bsky.social•157 days ago

I don’t care how much it costs to make Andor I will show up for any seasons made.. the writing alone is well worth the $

tvkel.bsky.social•158 days ago

The Acolyte was way more expensive as well once you average them all by hour. I didn't hate it or love it. It had potential but I couldn't tell where the money went. Andor out of any of the TV shows felt like they put the money onscreen.

tvkel.bsky.social•158 days ago

Disney needs to hire the showrunners from The Ark. They tell very compelling stories with no budget on limited sets in Romania with actors you've never heard of. Or hire Apple's The Foundation showrunners. That show isn't much cheaper but they get so much more onscreen.

keithzg.ca•158 days ago

The Ark has such bizarrely bad computer animation that it would have been laughable in the 00s . . . and it barely hurts the show at all, because the TV veterans behind it have structured the show so well that one happily suspends disbelief!

mrmaresca.com•158 days ago

The Ark is also about the dumbest motherfuckers to ever travel in space, I swear. "Hey, let's do this thing to kickstart this planet's rotation! But, no, don't check if the oceans are made of methane, first, why would we?" Like, it's a fun show, but these people are SO DUMB I can't even.

keithzg.ca•158 days ago

Oh yeah they're rather braindead at times. And yet, at least those things happen quickly and people *do* reason these things out, even if too late, within an episode. Many contemporary prestige shows have characters ignoring obvious problems any schoolkid could point out for entite sessons.

tvkel.bsky.social•158 days ago

Exactly 💯. Story matters.

pjrodriguez.bsky.social•158 days ago

Disney should run Dean Devlin no-budget nonsense?!?

tvkel.bsky.social•158 days ago

Disney should hire people,(I don't care who, that was an example) that can make TV shows and not a 5 hour movie cut up into chunks. People that understand the way TV narrative works. Another example with higher budgets is stuff on Apple like Foundation. It looks amazing. Plenty of ships & planets.

pjrodriguez.bsky.social•158 days ago

At this point, it sounds like you just don’t care for Andor — which is fine! You don’t have to!

tvkel.bsky.social•158 days ago

Ohhhh no. I loved Andor. That was the best spent money out of any of the TV projects. It felt like 3 movies broken up instead of 1 but still the best Star Wars TV project. This is a Disney+ problem in general with MCU shows as well with having odd narrative issues.

thewillennium.bsky.social•158 days ago

It’s so weird how they are just constitutionally incapable of taking a W on a critical darling that underperforms. Have any amount of foresight, please! Like how can they be so IP-obsessed and not realize the longterm equity that gets them?

hugetinymistake.bsky.social•158 days ago

Ive never once thought that the Star Wars shows needed to look shittier

The best part of them is how amazing they look

Comments

Posting Rules

Reply