Sad but true. They don’t care if it’s illegal. They actually like it. They’ve wanted to destroy the government for a long time but needed someone like Musk to do it for them. He’s their wrecking ball. And I don’t think it will matter to the GOP unless it hurts them directly in their bank accounts.
I'm surprised that they don't understand that if you destroy intricate systems in gov't, the worst way you can do it is to totally muck it up. Too complex for that. I completely sympathize with wanting action, but don't most people understand advantage of refine/prune/surgically cut instead?
Their sense of white pride back. America stopped overtly and legally propping up whiteness with the passage of civil rights. They felt like losers (as they should cuz they are) without such a massive prop in place.
Won’t have any impact until the shoe on the other foot is being shoved up their 🍑. Trump “governing” like this lays the groundwork for the leftist version to do the same in the near future.
Republicans never cared about Americans or the rule of law. This is 50 years in the making. It’s now a murderous despot regime and he’s going to implement the American carnage. His supporters are fine with it.
We’re in a civil war. Right fucking now, not later. Now.
It shouldn't just bum you out Joe! It should scare the sh!t out of you!! This IS how dictatorships start. Remember, Hitler WAS elected.
People decry that comparison because, presently, we don't have gas chambers. In 1933, neither did the Nazis. It took 10 more years.
It's the direction of travel....
Won’t have any impact until MAGA’s lives are affected. Groceries not coming down, tariffs causing prices to skyrocket, benefits getting slashed, getting no help at government offices because no one works there anymore, bird flu spreading. It will soon be pure chaos and Trump will own all of it.
They are so delusional. trump is giving nothing to people below the billionaire level. It’s mind blowing how deep the cognitive dissonance runs. Just pathetic. It’s voluntary ignorance and stupidity. I would have to cut ties with anyone who fell for that shit. You’re on the good side.
We’re doomed, I’m afraid. Without critical thinking skills, our electorate will continue to smother our future by electing greedy businessmen. But maybe it’s always been this way; and it’s just now out in the open? 🤷♂️
I can’t stand to be around people like that any longer which means that more often than not I am on my own and alone. Better alone—holding onto my sanity keeping the ignorant red idiots as far away as possible.
This has become so repetitive with you; either grow the circle or stop talking to the same type of people in the circle. Because I appreciate your passion and the resistance but everything is so circular
How do we know you are even getting out of the comfort zone
Just more proof that those people never actually cared about the Constitution or America. In fact, they’re anti-American traitors, not the patriots they cosplay as
you have to focus on planting seeds in their mind. People aren't convinced to leave a cult, they must un-indoctrinate themselves. You must:
• maintain positive contact
• never shame or insult
• ask probing questions to activate the person's critical thinking skills. For example, "when did you first
find MAGA appealing? What did you like about the message?" When they answer these questions, and you see inconsistencies or factual errors, ask about those. Does it bother you that a "Christian" president, without warning, stopped Christian mission work around the world?
It takes time. You have to keep lines of communication open. You must always be respectful. You have to enlist trusted others.
Look at the work of people like Anthony Magnabosco and Street Epistemology. They use it for religious indoctrination but the technique works for political indoctrination.
I don’t disagree with this but most of the people I know like this are pretty light on critical thinking skills, to say the least. They’re either uneducated or engineering types. (No wonder they push STEM to the exclusion of everything else).
That's the point. Indoctrinated people have LOST their critical thinking skills. They've been short-circuited. They need to be guided back. And *everyone* has that ability. Especially engineers and STEM people. It's logic. If you can apply logic to your work, then apply it to your life and beliefs.
It's the min reason I avoid talking to family members who support trump. It both infuriates me and makes me sad that people I looked up to are so full of shit
What I can't understand is why they want this? Don't these massive changes, the stealing of our privacy, the cuts to SS/Medicare hurt Reps, too? Honestly, I'm both enraged and baffled, Joe. *Their* Grandmas will be impoverished, too.
I’ve thought of this, too. Wouldn’t a cult leader usually be younger? Some who could be around for a while? Could Elon take over as cult leader? I fear that’s really possible. And possibly is the plan. And the more media says his name, focuses on his actions, the more possible it really is.
I created an "alternate" account on Facebook. I liked three pages: Fox News, Ben Shapiro, and Breitbart. You wouldn't believe the shit that popped up in the feed. A large percentage is Elon Musk propaganda, including AI photos of him that portray him as a loving family man and national hero.
This is part of the problem. They have taken sports team mentality to politics. If you wear the uniform I like, I want you to win, but more importantly, the other guys to lose. Don't care what you do, as long as I get to participate in the victory parade.
It’s pure tribalism. Many people at their core pay lip service to the principles they spout. In the end they hate other groups and will align behind leaders who hate those groups. This basic fact explains much of history. Once you realize this the history of 1930s Germany is easy to understand.
Yes it's readily observable & true that hard-line MAGA voters/dyed-in-wool Trumpeters are untroubled by lawlessness as practiced by Trump & his acolytes—in fact, many of them would like to see more of it.
But that's likely not true of most GOP voters—on whom Dems/all anti-Trumpeters need to focus.
Serious question: What do you think happens when he *stops* giving them stuff they want? Like what if he starts doing to them what he currently does to "the bad guys"? What if he starts taking stuff away from them (ex: Soc Sec, Medicaid/care, SNAP, etc)? Do they still stick with him?
I find republicans views align with totalitarians a lot, and have very similar morals. They see other neighbors that are different as enemies, superficially. That's all they care about. Their one racist issue trumps all other reasoning, even joining nazis in bed because they both hate minorities.
I read this and only have anger. This person would be 💯 ok with death camps if Trump built them - he is as immoral as he is anti-Constitution.
I actually hate him and I don’t even know him.
You can’t change the minds of people who have been brainwashed it means they will have to admit that they were lied to and manipulated this will never happen
This is exactly correct. Brainwashed minds have extreme fear of admitting they've been lied to, it threatens their world view and the very foundation of their beliefs, It's weakness
in 2025, fascism does not sound like jackboots on cobblestones,
but more like that awkward silence after our nervous laughter,
when someone makes a joke about how terrible everything's become
We have to use our one and only power right now: collective purchasing power! Don't EVER buy a Tesla. Don't shop at Target. Don't use Twitter or FB. Buy local, don't use Amazon. Make them see us! Because right now, NOBODY cares about the Dems. But they will notice us when their stock price sinks!
The excellent @mrjamesob.bsky.social calls this the 'footballification' of politics where people wear their football scarves so tightly around their necks it cuts off the oxygen supply to their brain.
I always wondered how it was possible. The last 20 years have definitely opened my eyes to the fact that many humans are okay with hating others. It’s okay that it is their personality.
My guess is that many know deep down how wrong and crazy all this is. But accepting that, especially in the context of a textbook cult-like movement, is more than a lot of them can accept. Plus, owning the libs is a pathological obsession.
How is he rooting out the bad guy? The bad guys are now over the federal government. Elon Musk is the bad guy and he's doing this to hurt us and enrich himself even further. Does your friend think this is a game!? This is affecting everyone's lives. Politics is not a sports team.
Well, he'll get to taste the other side of that if we still have a functioning democracy in four years. Cause one thing is true than true… Every injustice that you build into the system gets turned back around on you when the "other guys" take charge.
These assholes will give up democracy and freedom itself to own the libs. Thats why I’ve cut them out of my life no matter how close we used to be. They’re not just wrong about policy now, they’re active actual fucking traitors. Fuck ‘em.
I am having a party for my friend. Her sister drives tesla. I said, she can't park in my driveway. She may have voted for Harris, but it doesn't matter. I am a minority. Anything impacting my life, my safety and my children, no compromise. They aren't with us.
A lot of people bought Teslas back when it was just an environmentally conscious choice of car and Musk hadn't revealed himself as a madman yet or even a Trump supporter. Are they supposed to sell it again? That's not gonna impact Musk.
Putin’s promise to the Russian people was stability and prosperity in exchange for total power which only came to his select crew but the people cheered them on thinking as they passed from the politics on inevitability (lies about the future) to the politics of eternity (lies all the time.
The Road to Unfreedom really explains the devils bargain and the two politics. Put it on the @walshfreedom.bsky.social book club. Maybe we those are needed. Streets all day, reading and study at night. All hand on deck, we need all ideas
I understand your pain. I had a similar conversation with someone I genuinely like and respect. They truly believe everything he says. It just makes me so sad.
I don’t have any MAGA friends anymore. I have removed myself from their orbit. Permanently. Family, friends, acquaintances, co-workers. I do not share my life with them.
I have heard basically the same thing. The ends justify the means, no matter how treasonous and horrific he is. They can always disbelieve anything about him by saying, “Fake news!” Or, “At least we aren’t pro abortion!” The vast,vast majority will never change.
The stupidest thing is he isn't giving them anything, and is actively taking things away. They only care that other people are getting punished, and that just makes them egotistical and shortsighted assholes.
The most insecure among us are happy to destroy the world as long as they are on the winning team.
What exactly has he done for them in the past three weeks?
In the meantime, they’ll sing a joyful tune & fall over in laughter as they sadistically watch black people forced back n2 Jim Crow like status, Latinos deported, the💩 beat out of🌈 & Native Americans stripped of citizenship. After all, they cheered a Nazi salute given at a presidential inauguration.
I wonder what your "friend" would say if you sent him the video of Musk's Nazi salute. I have a copy; a side by side with a Nazi group doing the.exact.same.thing.
That’s because this is and always was the endgame. Distract the populace with sports and teams for them to attach themselves to and root for. Stoke those feelings of attachment to one side, one team, no matter what. Then just tell them that you are their team. Most aren’t bright enough to care.
When it gets to the point where Trump disobeys court orders, they’ll not only be ok with that too, Fox News will tell them it’s the right thing for him to do.
And what happens when he stops giving them what they want? Do they think they’re going to be able to vote him out at that point?
By the time they realize what they did, it will be too late. Will never be able to get rid of him or musk.
I cut off my BF, because she said just about the same thing to me. I was raped, and she was the only one who knew, and when I asked her how she could vote for a rapist, knowing how one ruined my life, she said almost the same thing your friend said. So that was the end. They don’t get it.
Some of my old south side neighborhood buds spout the same. There's no way to penetrate their immovable position. Common sense is not a tool for these tools. So many left of Maga want to dole out respect but it ain't gonna work
I am convinced he could rape and murder a teenage girl for the world to see and even admit to it, and they still would stand by him. It truly is a cult.
They’ll say she wasn’t so innocent after all. As a matter of fact, at some point she even stopped fighting. She just laid there and took it. She liked it.
MAGA folks are totally fine with a Nazi, fascist regime as long as they feel they're on the ruling team and are protected. Problem is, Trump/Musk have zero interest in the redneck driving the Ford pickup with trucknutz making $60k a year. They will soon realize they are not on the team after all
Exactly why is this person someone you consider a friend when it's so obvious that much of the "stuff" he/they want from Trump is the infliction of misery on anyone not like them?
I have resigned myself not to try to convince a Trump supporter that he is not fit to be president If they watched what happened watched January 6th and know about the pardons there is nothing we can say to change their minds.Trump can shoot someone on 5th Ave and not lose a vote or a supporter.
So Trumpers think the bad guys are the people feeding starving people in Africa with wheat grown in Kansas? When will they realize they are the bad guys. I mean Musk is a straight up Bond villain working for CHAOS. The Treasury Heist is a plot in Die Hard.
Who are the bad guys? Americans who aren’t cultists? People who believe in diversity? Programs for children? I know the answer to this. What a small way to live. I hope karma meets him where he is at
I honestly think if the GOP banned porn, violent video games, and extreme music, you’d have a better chance of the country revolting against them than you do with the dismantling of government as we know it.
i wish i knew where the break was. i'm sure there was a time long ago when he and most of the rest believed in playing by the rules, knowing right vs wrong, treating others with dignity. but something happened, and now i am mystified and mortified by this kind of thinking.
Don’t worry Joe, people are still living in the imaginary utopia that Trump has fed them. The fans are just starting to spin up to full speed and the truck of shit is backing up. Because obedience rarely goes anywhere without stupidity.
The unapologetic apathy is disgusting. My personal angry button is hearing people say: "I can't do anything about it, so I don't even watch the news". 😡
The moment your country stops blaming Musk and starts blaming Trump, the giver of orders, the better you all will be. Trump is giving the marching order and the puppet Musk is doing what is asked. IT'S TRUMP'S BIDDING, stop blaming Musk
It’s truly a shame! The hypocrisy! The blind bias! The ego that says… “he’s my guy & I’ll be with him til the end of time.” The worst part is the widespread division he’s caused. Union vs Confederate sorta divide. The kind that tears apart friends & family from inside… with no chance to reconcile!
I would say about a third of the country is on such a high of “owning the Libs“ that they don’t care that for almost all “drug” users it inevitably comes to a dark, horrible end.
I keep reminding myself that it’s not them, but independents and the unengaged, that we have to talk to and convince.
More evidence that the top MAGA priority is hurting people they hate. Fidelity to the law or the Constitution or ethics or religious values will always take a back seat.
This is why it's pointless to "open a conversation" with these people. They want pain- OUR pain. They probably still won't change when they feel the pain too.
Even my liberal dad was like, calm down, there's 8 billion people and we're not in direct line of fire. Excuse me? I don't want other people in the line of fire either! I'm not trying to wait my turn patiently. And also, yes I am, and so is my child.
I like to ask how they would feel if this was their financial institution giving an outsider full range to their sensitive personal information. No MAGA person wants to admit their information or people they know could be a risk.
This will sound crazy but how in the f*ck are the home grown white nativists & white supremacists rolling over in joy that a foreigner is coming in & tearing up “their country”, albeit a ⚪️ man. Wouldn’t u be embarrassed? Angry? That a foreigner is sitting atop the 🇺🇸 mountain? Where is their pride?
this is the culmination of the Republican project you devoted your life to furthering. This is the logical end to the "government is not the solution, its the problem" ideology of Regan's "revolution".
I've had similar conversations with former/estranged friends. I always end them by saying, "If that's really how you feel, enjoy it while you can. Because if you're OK with what Trump's doing now, nobody's coming to help you when the people you don't like gain power and do the same shit to you."
And all these supposed American "patriots" will be the first ones to say the constitution had a good run but it's time for something new, without ever saying what's going to replace it. Never forget it the next time they call someone else a "traitor".
They feel like they ARE the law! They are ABOVE everyone since they have all the money. They must be SO much smarter because people bow down to money. We must use that WEAKNESS to stop them. We are many and we haven't sold our souls!
Let me say this as slow as possible. Trumpers 👏 hate 👏 Americans 👏
To be fair this is really on the oligarchs who traded our imperfect but civil society for one where they’re in power and we’re all fighting with each other.
They’ve created an environment where propaganda runs rampant, which causes friends and families to hate each other. All in service of a person who, if you were on fire and water wasn’t an option, wouldn’t pee on you.
I mean, of course. I try not to be cynical but I would absolutely never expect a trumper to actually care about rights or freedoms or the constitution. I feel like they have been open about that: harm people they hate & they are happy, no matter what they have to destroy to do it.
His use of team might as well be another word for tribe. We're basically in tribal warfare. Trump and Elon are warlords. Blind obedience to the leader no matter how vile or crazy because you identify with that tribe and have been convinced to hate the other tribe.
I've had the same conversations. And they'll feel that way until, and it's when not if, Musk starts blowing shit up like his crappy rockets and death trap cars. Then, they'll blame Biden, or Hillary, or Obama. Why? Because your friend, and mine, and all MAGA are selfish dicks.
Heard the same thing in a convo the other day. It's so disheartening. They will give up their freedoms and overlook lawlessness because they think it suits them. Isn't this the same thinking of Germans in the 30s?
Comments
My only question would be "and what has Trump given you...?"
And they say ‘fuck it, I am a racist. I am. I don’t want my race erased’
That will take your breath away
They had no good option when it came out
So they took a breath & said it out loud to accept it😳😔😡
We’re in a civil war. Right fucking now, not later. Now.
People decry that comparison because, presently, we don't have gas chambers. In 1933, neither did the Nazis. It took 10 more years.
It's the direction of travel....
Same with some friends and family for me
They want to be in it.
Say goodbye.
“The friend and enemy concepts receive their real meaning precisely because they refer to the real possibility of physical killing.”
How do we know you are even getting out of the comfort zone
Your friend has been indoctrinated. This is what indoctrination looks like.
You can't change someone's mind with facts. That never works, it causes people to dig in deeper. Instead,
• maintain positive contact
• never shame or insult
• ask probing questions to activate the person's critical thinking skills. For example, "when did you first
Ask questions. Plant seeds.
Look at the work of people like Anthony Magnabosco and Street Epistemology. They use it for religious indoctrination but the technique works for political indoctrination.
People who have lost touch with their decency or thank Trump for freeing them from pretending they ever had any.
Stop the World…..kick them all off!
And what they have empowered will absolutely wreak havoc through their communities, and I don’t give one iota of a fuck for any of them
But that's likely not true of most GOP voters—on whom Dems/all anti-Trumpeters need to focus.
I actually hate him and I don’t even know him.
Who does he think the bad guys are?
What does he think he wants that only Trump can provide?
but more like that awkward silence after our nervous laughter,
when someone makes a joke about how terrible everything's become
Sadly this has to be repeated every few years until we get it.
And we don't have great memories..
But I hope that liberals do the same the next time they are in power. Fuck these scumbags.
What have the “bad guys” done? I need it spelled out for me
What exactly has he done for them in the past three weeks?
By the time they realize what they did, it will be too late. Will never be able to get rid of him or musk.
Also, I am sorry for what happened to you, both with your BF and your rape.
This is cult brainwashing.
77 mil+ Americans need to be deprogrammed.
What will it take ?
That conversation could have been much shorter.
JW: Change your mind about Trump?
MAGA: No.
And you're done.
He voted for a fucking felon
God I hate MAGA media. It is a cancer of heinous proportions
That's the crucial question.
Ending up homeless, jobless, poor and sick does a hell of a lot to your thinking.
And sometimes it is just what is needed to snap them out of their coma.
Not the bad policies, but the bad people. Because ideas don't matter- loyalty is all thst matters.
In case you wonder what Trumpers think.
For the ones I didn't like, I have to admit that they were honorable men, who didn't want to be dictators.
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me.
So no whining or bitching when it comes for him.
I keep reminding myself that it’s not them, but independents and the unengaged, that we have to talk to and convince.
To be fair this is really on the oligarchs who traded our imperfect but civil society for one where they’re in power and we’re all fighting with each other.