If 2 people read or listen to a book are they getting the same thing out of said book? Can they have a conversation about it? Would you be able to tell who read or listened?
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Especially if it’s fantasy, the reader will be shocked at how all the names are actually pronounced and the audiobook listener will be shocked at how they are spelled.
The word "reading" isn't about what you get out of the book though. It is a description of the method of ingesting the information within the book. Reading and listening are two different methods of consuming information. equally valid. but different.
I see them both as 'consuming' the book, but one read it and one listened to it. I don't place any greater value on reading over listening, and after the act I'd probably say the both have read the book, but I think reading and listening are different enough activities that the distinction is useful
In my experience, not typically.
A person listening to an audiobook is being fed the story, the tone, and the impression through the narrator's voice.
A person reading a book is immersing themselves wholly in their own imagination.
Honestly, as someone w/ ADHD, there are many of us who can physically read a page while our mind is thinking abt a completely different thought. (Thus reading comp is a barrier for traditional reading). I have 2 grad degrees, so I can read and at a high level, but audiobooks aid w/ my comprehension.
For me, when listening to audiobooks, I imagine everything, from the surrounding settings to the characters' facial expressions. When I'm reading text, I can do the same thing, but it's a struggle. I'll have to go over the same paragraph 3-4 times to actually absorb what just happened in the book.
Not all books require imagination. I listen to a lot of nonfiction. When an author reads their memoir, it elevates it. I also find it easier to digest factual information in certain nonfiction. I consider this reading.
I think this must be one of the best take on this discussion (i didn't read all). Sometimes, I do audiobook but not for preference, just cause am bussy doing something else and then put the audio option on my bookish app. But yes, reading let you choose the voices, the tones, a lot
So by that logic, if you listen to an author read their autobiography that counts more as reading than if you just read the book, because you're getting additional information from the author you wouldn't otherwise have... The impression and tone are just as the author intended.
Plus, the layout, font, form of a book all affect how you experience it, while if you listen to a book you bypass all that influence and cut through to the words themselves.
I think your whole definition of reading as being able to "immerse yourself in your imagination" is flawed. It applies exclusively to fiction books, for one thing. And it hardly excludes audiobooks, which for some people are more immersive.
You're making up context where there is none for an argument that doesn't exist here.
That's not my definition of reading, it's an example in response to the question of whether two people enjoying the same story get the same thing out of different means of consuming it.
Fair enough, in that case it's not relevant to the question of whether audiobooks count as reading.
I'd say the form of the book - the cover, the texture of the paper, the font & font size etc - would be the equivalent of tone in an audiobook. It's not just neutral access to the words themselves.
That's not to say that people shouldn't enjoy audiobooks if that's their preferred form of entertainment and storytelling. I just think it's unwise to conflate the two, especially as a parent of two children who need to learn to read in order to grow into literate human beings.
Most people learn depending on other factors. Yes we adapt to what we prefer but there's not really anyone who is a listener or, in this case, reader. Other factors primarily impact how and what you learn and then you adapt to it yourself.
Also, just to have it be said, my own preference is audiobooks. But I know why reading is important, but that's for other reasons than it being a better learning system for me.
Folks in general shouldn't put that much value on a particular style and should just... do what works.
Generally, what you prefer is what's best, because it's what's easiest, the same for anything. The most important part is to simply engage with the marital no matter how you consume it, cuz that's the best way to learn. Besides this doesn't account for stuff like ADHD where hands on stuff is better
Ok but like, full disclosure I didn't watch the whole video cuz I'm doing something else rn, but he was right when he said his version is unscientific, that's just a memory game, teaching to memorization has always just been the worst way to learn anyways. It's all surface level.
Ok but that's not something you need to strengthen, that's like strengthening right handedness when you're left handed, it's just kinda not helpful in any capacity.
my eyesight is too poor and holding a book is difficult, we all make our own choices. If I had a two year old I would not rely on only audio books either.
Wait.. you don’t use your imagination when listening to a story?
When I listen to the story, my brain visualizes everything.
But cuz of my dyslexia.. when I read.. my brain is mostly struggling with words, so far less mental imagery.
Listening to a story for me is far more immersive
I don't disagree with listening to audiobooks at all. If that's how you best enjoy your stories, then I'm thrilled you've found your medium.
However, it is not the same as reading, nor is it the same as watching.
I, for one, don't really do TV or movies; I just don't enjoy them overmuch. 🤷♀️
This is an excellent point, too! If you’re distracted by the struggle, it’s harder to immerse yourself. Just how some can’t audibly process either. Maybe everyone is right and it’s all “reading”!
While I agree that everyone is right to enjoy whatever form of storytelling fits them best (seriously, go for it!), I disagree that they are both reading. And it seems like a bad idea to encourage the implication that a child learning to read can gain literacy from listening.
Okay this is the first time I’ve seen the other side of the discussion. Audiobooks weren’t easy to get when I was learning to read so they couldn’t replace regular reading. Didn’t even think of it! I definitely see listening to inflection & even some acting as taking away from your own imagination.
Being fed that stuff isn't bad. It's the surface lvl info. It can allow a mind to engage its imagination more acutely or allow the reader to concentrate on more complex themes.
ive always wondered if audiobook narrators should take on a more "neutral" tone. but that would become robotic i guess. there's no way around this problem
However, when you listen to a book typically you are getting the inflections that the author intended. You might miss that when you read the book. I'm not down on reading. I just think its pretentious to look down on those that enjoy audiobooks.
I mean, I feel like in this particular thread, there's not a lot of put down here.
on the other topic, I wonder about the differences between experiencing a book as approved by the audiobook manufacturers, and engaging with a written book, and all of the decisions you make about those same saspects.
Like, I would hope there's literature on if there are differences or not, because that could have fascinating consequences in storytelling and in brain activity. Is reading a book a different mental activity as compared to watching a movie or listening to an audiobook. what about music albums?
Those are all lesuire/artistic critique activities, but they use wholey different senses, and talking about music should be way different than talking about audiobooks, right? Same sense, but different brain workout.
I'm not putting down those who enjoy audiobooks, as I've said in another comment, and I disagree with the participants of this conversation that suggest it's a lesser means of enjoying a story.
However, I'm in full opposition to the argument that listening to an audiobook is the same as reading.
You got me there! I fully agree on being spoon-fed the story. It is also so easy to miss so many details while your mind wanders as you multi-task, driving while listening to audiobooks. I just wish I read faster than I do. It is so time-consuming when I do it.
And - is that always a bad thing? I submit it can be a GOOD thing - at least with respect to books “read” by white people that were not written by white people to step out of their own mental voice and experience a book as intended by its author (especially for audible books read by the author)
I listened to audiobooks while doing something like driving and doing house chores. When something said- I heard hits hard and relatable. I paused the audiobook and checked which chapter it is and read it again on my hardcopy/book.
As an English teacher, I'm all for audiobooks if it gets kids to consume more books. However, to understand the writer's choices beyond the words (such as structure - sentence constructions, paragraphing, etc.) I need them to see it on the page, too, if they want to develop their writing skills.
Of course, for some with certain disabilities, reading is incredibly difficult, if not impossible. But my comment is for the average student in my class who would benefit from physically reading texts and going beyond the content of it.
But just because you learn the story doesn’t make it reading. There’s nothing wrong with these being separate activities. But it’s not reading. Your brain does totally different things when you read versus listen
That literally has no bearing on the issue. If you can't tell afterwards, you can't tell. But one person read it and one person listened to someone else read it aloud to them. Both are good, but one action is not the same as the other.
It's not even true frankly. I've listened to adaptions of Tolkien's stuff where the readers don't realize he's doing specific metered language and even callbacks to old Norse poetry and stuff
They just read right over it all missing little rhymes and moments lol
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A person listening to an audiobook is being fed the story, the tone, and the impression through the narrator's voice.
A person reading a book is immersing themselves wholly in their own imagination.
That's not my definition of reading, it's an example in response to the question of whether two people enjoying the same story get the same thing out of different means of consuming it.
I'd say the form of the book - the cover, the texture of the paper, the font & font size etc - would be the equivalent of tone in an audiobook. It's not just neutral access to the words themselves.
Oral storytelling is not only a more rich format, but it directly stimulates the visual cortex.
There are also studies saying that retention is much higher. Probably because it’s one of the most primal mediums of thought
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhgwIhB58PA&ab_channel=Veritasium
Most people learn depending on other factors. Yes we adapt to what we prefer but there's not really anyone who is a listener or, in this case, reader. Other factors primarily impact how and what you learn and then you adapt to it yourself.
Folks in general shouldn't put that much value on a particular style and should just... do what works.
Unless you like lose function of the left hand
When I listen to the story, my brain visualizes everything.
But cuz of my dyslexia.. when I read.. my brain is mostly struggling with words, so far less mental imagery.
Listening to a story for me is far more immersive
Reading the dialogue from the FL in a book, based on the descriptions, she comes across as witty and maybe a bit dry.
Listening to a narration of the same book, she now sounds like a valley girl cheerleader.
It changes my whole impression. 🤷♀️
However, it is not the same as reading, nor is it the same as watching.
I, for one, don't really do TV or movies; I just don't enjoy them overmuch. 🤷♀️
Well that’s the great thing about language
It’s fluid
According to science
on the other topic, I wonder about the differences between experiencing a book as approved by the audiobook manufacturers, and engaging with a written book, and all of the decisions you make about those same saspects.
However, I'm in full opposition to the argument that listening to an audiobook is the same as reading.
https://time.com/5388681/audiobooks-reading-books/
How many books a year are you consuming? Physical or audio? My Audible collection has expanded my knowledge exponentially.
I have practically memorized some of them from listening so much.
If it was about Tolkien using Anglo Saxon poetic devices and meter at times when characters were speaking in children of hurin
You would never know it unless the reader was a linguist and knew what to look for and emphasize
that doesn't mean you both took the train there even though you both ended up there.
They just read right over it all missing little rhymes and moments lol