I think they're Taxpayer Identification Numbers when you're a non-citizen (also green card holders). Having this in the SSA database is just practical. Calling it fraud or a scam is idiotic. It's the rich who are permitted to NOT pay taxes that's the scam, not non-citizens who PAY taxes.
Thanks, I got it half-right, I guess! But yeah--complaining about the government giving people a way to pay taxes is insane when he goes out of his way to not pay any.
Social Security cards state clearly if person is eligible for work or not. I’ve never seen “illegal” card, i’ll trust you on that. Used to be you’ve had to have some kind of visa at least.
"An ITIN is a 9-digit number the IRS issues if you need a U.S. taxpayer identification number for federal tax purposes, but you aren’t eligible for a Social Security number (SSN)."
The OP was wrong to conflate the two, but undocumented immigrants can receive work authorization. For example, a DACA recipient doesn’t have a legal immigration status but they do qualify for work authorization.
They are also MARKED clearly stating they are NOT CITIZENS. Once they become citizens the cards are reissued using their final american name with full documentation. We already have a process!
They aren't marked like that. Being a citizen is not the criteria for getting a number or for being authorized to work in the US. Musk just doesn't understand the system yet he's allowed to play around and F it up.
A Social Security# is a major linchpin that gives individuals fundamental rights to exist and engage as a legitimate member of American Society. The anti-migrant move should set of ALARMS: Manipulating one's SS# can be used to target US citizens for any reason!: voting record, org membership, etc
A Social Security# is a major linchpin that gives individuals fundamental rights to exist and engage as a legitimate member of American Society. The anti-migrant move should set of ALARMS: Manipulating one's SS# can be used to target US citizens for any reason!: voting record, org membership, etc
Follow through on your implied commitment to disabled humanity and equality. Start using alt text for public image posts. Stop contributing to the hostile environment for Blind people while govt attacks them
Musk is such a jerk and a fool. The only thing he ever helped design was the god-awful cybertruck, which is dangerous, ugly, and unusable as an actual truck. With regard to social security, he is either lying or even more stupid than I thought. He is evil.
I do not understand how this type of stupidity, ignorance, negligence, and outright contempt for our government, and the people who do the hard work for we, the people, can continue to be celebrated by irresponsible, fake journalists and an administration that does nothing but lie to the people!
ALERT: THIS FUCKING BULLSHIT IS BEING FED NON-STOP TO ALL THE GULLIBLES WATCHING FOX NEWS ALL DAY AND NIGHT. THEY NEVER QUESTION, THEY NEVER DOUBT. THEY BELIEVE THE FUCKING BULLSHIT AND THEY REMAIN IN THEIR PATHETIC IGNORANCE DAY AFTER DAY.
So why can't aliens sue the government to refund their FICA after deportation? They could become citizens, or dual citizens, then their FICA vests can collect Social Security. Canadians&Americans who become dual citizens can collect both Canada Retirement & Social Security, although it's reduced.
Undocumented immigrants use ITIN numbers ,issued legally by the IRS, to report their taxes. They begin with #9 as the first digit. This differentiates them from SS #s.
God knows if DOGE knows this.
I didn’t know that many are working in Trump & Elons businesses as well as any GOP businesses
Hard to believe
I bet they are well
On their way as immigrants to being very productive & recognized as well worth living in the promised land of USA of diversity, equality &
Inclusion of all
I was crossing into Canada from Michigan in 2002 for a conference - I thought my Social Security card was all the ID I needed. I was told that it is not proof of citizenship FOR THIS REASON. Idiots with computers can find all sorts of things - but they do not understand the context.
Foreign-born workers add more than $2 trillion annually. This is roughly 8% of the US GDP. Immigrants boost the labor force, increase consumer spending, and contribute to overall economic growth. The CBO projects that increased immigration over the next decade will add $7 trillion to the economy.
Depends on status. Undocumented people might not get the benefits but legal residents would. Being a citizen isn't the criteria for collecting benefits tho.
Republicans like money that they can steal. Social Security is hard for them to steal from, so they don't care and are moving on, after they hurt as many immigrants as they can.
A couple of thoughts here:
-Are they 'undocumented' if they've filed for and legally received a social security number and started paying taxes under their own name?
-He says "non-citizens", which sounds like it includes people with visas or green cards - very BROAD strokes, not just 'illegals'
Very misleading. 1. If workers are undocumented they only receive an Individual Tax ID number to pay taxes. With a govt approved grant to work migrants can get an SSN for tax purposes. BUT EVEN THEN it’s for tax purposes ONLY. Non-citizens pay into but don’t receive SS.
It seems kinda obvious that you have to look at the whole picture of how the government works. Everything is connected and affects the whole. How much money are we gonna lose taking away SS numbers from immigrant workers?
Undocumented immigrants can get an ITIN to pay federal income taxes. The govt is happy to collect income taxes from them even if they can't legally work. They are NOT eligible for govt benefits despite paying income taxes.
Which is fucked up to begin with. A big portion of the economy relies on cheap labor from undocumented immigrants and it's so systemic that the Government taxes them while they have no right or benefits.
Modern slavery.
Doesn't the issue of Social Security Numbers make them ... "Documented Immigrants"!!?
Or if you prefer; Immigrants.
This in a nation where almost 99% of the population are descended from immigrants who mostly arrived undocumented?
As Forrest Gump said: "Stupid is as stupid does."
The email from SSA with that coveted SS # is now cc'd to ICE so they can quickly cut off the tax revenue stream and add to the deficit by revoking that taxpayer's legal status. Perhaps our national motto should be "Cutting off our noses to spite our faces daily."
Undocumented immigrants are not issued Social Security numbers or work permits. Instead, they receive an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN), which allows them to pay taxes but does not grant them legal authorization to work in the United States.
A foreign actor, living and working in the USA, can apply for an ITIN, make millions, pay federal income taxes, and never have to claim US citizenship.
Why? Because as a US citizen, the IRS will seek you out for any income you make - in any corner of the world.
And to the point of the original post pay taxes (if not paid under the table) because they’re taken out of their paychecks. It’s a good chunk of billions of income to lose.
Many also use Tax Payer IDs to pay their taxes (friend who is an attorney said it helps in effort to adjust their status). That is why they want access to the IRS data. It also contradicts the lie that undocumented immigrants don’t pay taxes.
This sharing of IRS info with ICE is truly messed up. As some one who used to work for Inland Revenue, that everyone pays tax and your information is private, is sacred. This is so wrong.
ITINs do not authorize a person to work in the U.S. or provide eligibility for Social Security benefits.
Tax returns filed with an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number reporting wages paid are required to show the Social Security Number under which the wages were earned.
I think when Social Security declares you dead, all financial institutions do as well. At least that is what happened to a citizen DOGE declared dead via Social Security. It’s a back door way of freezing your assets.
Others too. A family member had one while he was still going through the immigration process and didn't have the green card yet. Needed to file taxes with spouse.
Any sane person concerned about the stability of Social Security would celebrate having all those people paying into the fund and never being able to collect. Sane people are rare these days.
It’s really very simple. If you get work authorization, you get a SSN, regardless of immigration status. A SSN doesn’t authorize you to vote and it doesn’t qualify you for any benefits. It’s a tax ID.
Well perhaps someone on Fox News should explain the whole story! Because Elon is making people think Immigrants are able to do things they can’t. And it’s leading to stupid things.
I’ve found it helpful to think of it as a cult in the most literal sense. An extremism that’s clinically difficult to recover from. I always thought of racism as being at the heart of it but this made me think that misogyny and self esteem issues are the start point https://www.momleft.com/p/it-starts-with-misogyny-a-q-and-a
This operation for collecting taxes from undocumented immigrants has been going on for decades and NOT ONE republiCON has ever spoke out against it, maybe it’s due to the fact they can’t use the SS and Medicare fund to file claims when they reach 65,
Are they also adding in TINS (taxpayer ID numbers) that are given to foreigners, like non-citizen spouses abroad, in place of Socials, who also have to file US income taxes?
Oh, why am I even asking. These slugs misrepresent/lie, or are just plain stupid, about everything.
SSNs are also issued to legal resident aliens (“green card” holders) so they also can work and pay taxes. They are not citizens but they can work etc. This”genius” is an idiot that has no understanding of immigration laws. He needs to go.
can he really be that dense? or is he hoping his followers are?
having worked in a country as a non citizen for quite a few years because i had to pay, taxes!
Green card holders are immigrants. People with valid work visas are immigrants.
They all get social security numbers.
Immigrants are elegible for SS benefits after 10 years of continuous employment in the US.
See whatnhapoens when you let a non American who knows? Nothing about our country take it over. Didn't they give him a SS# to work when he first came here? After he lied about his student Visa & drilled iutnif college & continued to stay?
A: Those numbers include documented immigrants.
B: Most of those immigrants are denied many of the benefits those taxes pay for.
C: Taxation without representation.
So the workers paid taxes, SS & MC dollars into a SS number they will never be able to collect from unless they become documented in the interim. Not sure where that $$ goes that isn’t collected. But I am not sure that a new number isn’t given if they leave/are deported so any benefits are lower.
They're not even true Social Security numbers. They are ITINs - Individual Taxpayer Identification numbers. They cannot get benefits or even refunds with those numbers. They can only pay into the system.
I don't believe anything Ellen comes up with. He would be better advised getting out of politricks, and back into whatever he was doing before. He's a Quisling, a nazi collaborator with a corrupt government and he's treated as such by many, well his cars are, in particular the Swasticar!
Actually, no. You just need to be dishonest. And if you showcase a little bit of unbiased honesty, you get circle-jerked on by such inhuman pieces of shit like Jesse Waters with his douchebag hairdo and whoever that angry old hag who works with him is.
There are around 10 to 11 million undocumented people in our nation. They pay a chunk of social security even though they do not get benefit. They are about 3 percent of our total population.
I'm actually shocked how few leading Democrats have stood up at this point and forcefully, mockingly and curtly as if Elon Musk doesn't understand how the agencies work how can he audit them?
I'm not a citizen I have a social lol these people are so stupid. It's like when I get asked, omg you've been in this country for 22 years how are you not a citizen,.well Karen you think I don't ask this to the gov every day??
Undocumented immigrants paid $96.7 billion in federal, state, and local taxes in 2022. Most of that amount, $59.4 billion, was paid to the federal government while the remaining $37.3 billion was paid to state and local governments. https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/
Our immigration system was "insane" when it allowed illegals like Elon Musk and Melania Trump to stay here, become citizens, and bring along their family members.
Lots of Bubba’s and Jethro’s will be putting down their Schiltz malt liquor and picking up all these great jobs those illegals were doing. We’ll be fine. sarcasm, incoming.
We're aware you're insane and drug addled as well. Oh,did you get a SS# ? Didn't you overstay your visa and are here's illegally? Did you falsify records to obtain citizenship?
Does Elon Musk have a Social Security number?
Should he be kidnapped and sent to CECOT too?
How much tax does he pay?
Why the fuck hasn't he been arrested yet?
They’re undocumented. *asylees* have a legal immigration status. While asylum *seekers* are undeportable while their case is in process, they don’t actually have a legal immigration status. Despite this they can apply for work authorization 150 days after filing for asylum.
I would categorize asylum seekers under number 2, people such as those who I represented (and housed at my home) who weren’t undocumented/unauthorized and could get work authorization (specifically not *un* authorized if you can get work authorization haha) and therefore an SSN.
That is a lot of money the US Government takes in and most people paying will never claim benefits. So how is he proposing that the government is losing money?
Comments
Either way, Musk is indeed an idiot.
We are all in agreement on the important parts, like the lunacy we're seeing from people like Musk!
"An ITIN is a 9-digit number the IRS issues if you need a U.S. taxpayer identification number for federal tax purposes, but you aren’t eligible for a Social Security number (SSN)."
https://www.irs.gov/tin/itin/individual-taxpayer-identification-number-itin
so DUMB!!!!!!! I thought Republicans loved money!! This tax revenue is a GOOD THING!!
GREEN CARD HOLDERS GET SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS
He knows nothing.
This debate is meaningless because the entire globe shut down for a year shutting off most immigration during COVID years.
My guess is they didn't show those years because realizing the numbers are not sinister does not serve their aim: Induce Fear of the Other!
They be in government by now
God knows if DOGE knows this.
Hard to believe
I bet they are well
On their way as immigrants to being very productive & recognized as well worth living in the promised land of USA of diversity, equality &
Inclusion of all
Because they get much more traction with hate, racism, bigotry.
They are tin number
Tax id number
My spouse is a legal resident and has an SSN.
https://www.irs.gov/tin/itin/individual-taxpayer-identification-number-itin
He LIVED this (at least according to his brother Kimbal)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUDCud3O67Y&t=3s
He's just banking on Maga being uniformed.
Pulling the ladder up from behind is cruel and that's the point.
$26 BILLION !!
-Are they 'undocumented' if they've filed for and legally received a social security number and started paying taxes under their own name?
-He says "non-citizens", which sounds like it includes people with visas or green cards - very BROAD strokes, not just 'illegals'
Undocs would get a TIN, not an SSN.
Modern slavery.
Or if you prefer; Immigrants.
This in a nation where almost 99% of the population are descended from immigrants who mostly arrived undocumented?
As Forrest Gump said: "Stupid is as stupid does."
And , not enough characters so
Every fkn where else but land of free
Why? Because as a US citizen, the IRS will seek you out for any income you make - in any corner of the world.
Pretty mad
This isn't the problem they are trying to make out.
ITINs do not authorize a person to work in the U.S. or provide eligibility for Social Security benefits.
Tax returns filed with an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number reporting wages paid are required to show the Social Security Number under which the wages were earned.
You will see a precipitous drop in 2020 (wonder why) and then catching up to the same level.
Foreign workers - like the people the Musk hires - have to pay into the system and likely will never see a dime of it.
Oh, why am I even asking. These slugs misrepresent/lie, or are just plain stupid, about everything.
And a disgusting horndog.
having worked in a country as a non citizen for quite a few years because i had to pay, taxes!
They all get social security numbers.
Immigrants are elegible for SS benefits after 10 years of continuous employment in the US.
B: Most of those immigrants are denied many of the benefits those taxes pay for.
C: Taxation without representation.
https://www.americanprogressaction.org/article/donald-trump-is-lying-about-immigrants-and-social-security-medicare/
Translation: Steal money from Social Security
That's why donny used him to do this. I
Ge wants to make sure theres zero labor force for any manufacturers in the US.
https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/
Should he be kidnapped and sent to CECOT too?
How much tax does he pay?
Why the fuck hasn't he been arrested yet?