Danger from older drivers is a massive problem. Driving is not a human right. There should be basic mandatory re-tests at age 76 & every year from age 80. If this disqualified many people from driving that might help concentrate minds on the need for alternatives. www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle... - ThreadSky

hoxtonrich.bsky.social • 11 days ago

Danger from older drivers is a massive problem. Driving is not a human right. There should be basic mandatory re-tests at age 76 & every year from age 80. If this disqualified many people from driving that might help concentrate minds on the need for alternatives. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/jun/15/my-mother-in-law-is-still-driving-despite-a-near-miss-how-can-we-stop-her

Comments

bespokeeb.bsky.social•11 days ago

Needs more context - Older people are more vulnerable in a crash eg head injuries. ( same as when cycling or walking)
Older people drive fewer miles than other drivers . Have higher crashes per mile as much is local and not on motorways.

hoxtonrich.bsky.social•11 days ago

All true yes and there is a lack of good evidence but what there is still points to a higher risk from older people and unsurprisingly younger more inexperienced drivers & personally I think the Licensing system should do much more to address both

andyfla.bsky.social•11 days ago

Can we bring this forward?
Full retest every 10 years and theory every 5?

ohgodwhatdoiput.bsky.social•11 days ago

Full retest every 5, already way too many people on the roads who can't drive.

neilmfawcett.bsky.social•10 days ago

Agree. Wouldn't be a bad thing for drivers to be reminded that indicators exist and that the middle lane is actually an overtaking lane at least every five years.

ohgodwhatdoiput.bsky.social•10 days ago

I would just like drivers to learn how to merge correctly. Both in terms of not being an active danger and at roadworks so they stop blocking lanes making traffic worse.

I'd quite like to see fines for both tbh.

brian.ppcis.org•9 days ago

As a non-driver, I want drivers to learn to indicate left when leaving a roundabout.

ohgodwhatdoiput.bsky.social•9 days ago

Indicating generally seems like something drivers are incapable of. Your car should give you a shock if you change lanes without indicating.

viriato.satan.social•10 days ago

Driving is not a human right, but freedom of movement it's a human right.

So, how we can guarantee the freedom of movement to elders who live in isolated houses, farms or villages so small that they haven't other transpoprtation alternative?

How they can go to doctor, shopping or socialize?

viriato.satan.social•10 days ago

And, the casualties rate is like the young males. Should be ban them too?.

hoxtonrich.bsky.social•10 days ago

To your first question - what about when people can’t drive? You’d do the same when they are unfit to, to protect others. But yes I agree it shows why we urgently need to invest in alternatives because aside from the harm it causes others, fundamentally driving is not an equitable transport solution

hoxtonrich.bsky.social•10 days ago

To your second question yes there should also be greater restrictions on young/new drivers such as limiting allowable engine power and ability to carry passengers until certain ages/years experience. Some countries already do this.

hoxtonrich.bsky.social•10 days ago

Obviously some of the raised impact/risk amongst the young is just experience rather than age & we need to allow new drivers to gain experience in the safest possible way without putting others at risk. Being male does seem to be a big risk factor too - maybe men need more bespoke training?

viriato.satan.social•10 days ago

I'm spanish, but we have same problem. I point some measures for elders like lowering the speed limits in rural areas, limiting elders to some roads, improve the visibility using reflective materials, road marks or iluminating some areas, improving road maintenance, installing fences.👇

hoxtonrich.bsky.social•11 days ago

Apologies forgot the alt text. The image is a chart of KSI per billion miles by age and sex showing a big increase in risk from age 70+. Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-older-and-younger-driver-factsheets-2022/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-younger-driver-factsheet-2022

mikebat.bsky.social•11 days ago

Also tests every year for males under 25.

coldwarcliff.bsky.social•10 days ago

It's how people drive after a test thats the issue with <25s. Should be mandatory black box (though frankly it should be a mandatory black box for everyone IMO).

liv-edin.bsky.social•11 days ago

Mandatory black boxes and speed limiters too

martinhwheatley.bsky.social•11 days ago

Highly unusually for UK, my bit of rural Cambridgeshire has cycleways and quiet back roads. A fair few elders about on bikes, and trikes. But also a lot driving 1-3 mile journeys which are cyclable, even if a bit frail.

condedecotobade.bsky.social•11 days ago

Considering the number of drivers (and their mileage) I would say that the massive problem is male drivers 18-25.

downwithrussia.bsky.social•9 days ago

is this the country kitchen buffet

uberfahr.bsky.social•10 days ago

Amazing. I wonder why we emphasize "teen driving 'accidents'" so much and penalize them or whoever pays their insurance? Do insurance companies abide by this data in their premiums for the againg?

onebiskuit.bsky.social•10 days ago

The problems with this chart, like the collision one you posted, are (a) they reflect the danger to themselves, not other road users (perhaps they follow parallel tracks) and (b) they’re per distances driven - older people do considerably fewer miles so the *total* casualties don’t spike so much

andersandersson.bsky.social•10 days ago

Agree, but don’t forget that the elders lose a quite a bit of mobility and change at that age doesn’t come easy

kimberleyontherun.bsky.social•10 days ago

Shouldn't let male drivers under 24 Drive either.

rantyhighwayman.bsky.social•11 days ago

#Havering has 18% of people over 65 and yet so many people drive. It is crazy that the council isn't working hard to give them alternatives.

hoxtonrich.bsky.social•11 days ago

Without alternatives just risks being punitive. But it is hard to build support for alternatives if almost all efforts only ever facilitate driving & leave most of the population dependent on cars. We have got ourselves in such a mess in this country.

mzdt.bsky.social•11 days ago

Carmarthenshire has a massively high proportion of older people, and needs to address this with better public transport, because otherwise most of them will continue to drive.

I can't give up my license, I don't have one :-)

paultbg.bsky.social•11 days ago

I'm sure that one of the reasons governments favour lax regulations on driving licences is that a sensible policy, such as you propose, could generate a powerful lobby for better alternatives to the car.

macemoneta.bsky.social•10 days ago

Older drivers have physical issues, and young drivers lack experience and judgement.

As I'm now ~70, I recognize my limitations and bought a Tesla with FSD in September. It drives me everywhere, and it already prevented a collision. I'm not alone:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/1l6cadf/has_anyone_had_fsd_avoid_an_accident/

hoxtonrich.bsky.social•10 days ago

This is not road legal in the UK and outside of the motorways and major roads our road system is not well suited to it. To me road danger reduction has to be mostly upstream - reduce traffic volumes, reduce speeds, design out risks. Technology has a role but it isn’t a panacea.

hoxtonrich.bsky.social•10 days ago

A good article last week in the press here on this very subject if you’re interested https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jun/12/driverless-cars-pedestrians-second-class-citizens

macemoneta.bsky.social•10 days ago

FSD advances by the hour. By the time an article is published, it's out of date. If you could take a test drive of the current level of FSD, you wouldn't post these silly articles.

hoxtonrich.bsky.social•10 days ago

European cities often very different to US cities. Generally not grid pattern. Narrow streets. Far more pedestrians & cyclists. People cross everywhere. Bus lanes, cycle lanes, trams, continuous junction crossovers etc. There are good reasons the tech is not legal (yet). Maybe one day it’ll work.

macemoneta.bsky.social•10 days ago

You mean like Rome?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zg3jc90JTI

macemoneta.bsky.social•10 days ago

Never said it was a panacea. People have have historically resisted every change to save lives on the road.

No smoking in cars
No texting
Seat belts
airbags
crumple zones

Now self-driving. In 5 years, people will look back at how ridiculous the opposition was, same as the previous advancements.

hoxtonrich.bsky.social•10 days ago

Big advantages are removal of speeding and removal of aggressive or reckless behaviour. But I’m sceptical it can work well in a non car-centric city, at least with current tech. In cities that are all motorways, flyovers & 4-lane roads maybe but that isn’t what I’d consider a desirable environment

macemoneta.bsky.social•10 days ago

FSD does an outstanding job in crowded US parking lots. People and cars, shopping carts, intermixed and all in motion - with arbitrary changes in path. It reevaluates 2000 times a second, plots trajectories for all objects, and sees 360 degrees.

Humans are the ones that shouldn't drive there.

slothlydad.bsky.social•10 days ago

.. and design IN alternatives.

Because even if many are still physically and mentally fit to drive at 80, others aren't; numerous medical conditions can instantly disqualify you; and frankly ALL of us should have viable options for when we're tired, or had a few beers, or just don't want to.

bjpaddy.bsky.social•11 days ago

What those stats mainly show is that older people are considerably more physically frail & are more likely to be injured or killed if they are in an accident? There are dangerous older drivers of course but to really save lives we should ban men under 30 driving.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24204489

coldwarcliff.bsky.social•10 days ago

So we've got people with failing eyesight, worsening reaction times, with increasing mobility issues and about 10% of over 65s with dementia (1/3 of which is undiagnosed).

Increased testing before they operate dangerous machinery around other humans seems reasonable.

bjpaddy.bsky.social•10 days ago

This is the 'make cyclists display number plates' of driver licencing - it's driven by anecdotes & prejudice rather than data because the data clearly show young male drivers are FAR more dangerous

coldwarcliff.bsky.social•10 days ago

Young drivers mature. They need black boxes to monitor their driving.

Everyone will reach a point when they are not fit to drive. And relying on people to self determine is not good enough.

Experience of 4 parents driving long after they were safe who would not be told.

bjpaddy.bsky.social•10 days ago

Telling me about your elderly relatives perhaps not the best response to my concern this is policy by anecdote? Meanwhile NZ has GP testing for older drivers which this study says 'is not evidence based' but does damage GP: patient relations
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214140520300608

coldwarcliff.bsky.social•10 days ago

It kind of demonstrates there is an issue with self assessment. Relying on GPs damages relationship (mums GP was not prepared to stop her driving even after dementia).

Retest of reactions and fight via simulator would seem solution to me. If they’re safe to drive they’ll pass easily.

hoxtonrich.bsky.social•10 days ago

GP decisions, no. A periodic basic driving safety retest is perfectly reasonable IMO. I get there is doubt over data but collisions per mile pretty damning. That older people drive shorter journeys on more dangerous roads is a factor but of course this behaviour change itself may be indicative

hoxtonrich.bsky.social•11 days ago

It is a proxy measure of course & there is an element of increased vulnerability but clearly also increased risk. I do think there should be more restrictions on younger drivers too (especially on engine power, passengers etc) but again those stats reflect partly driving inexperience not just age.

hoxtonrich.bsky.social•11 days ago

See also the collision rate (which has to be qualified that for older drivers it reflects relatively few collisions from few miles). Definitely isn’t perfect data & is complicated.

bjpaddy.bsky.social•11 days ago

Agree it's complex & I'm sure you're aware that older drivers are much more likely to be involved in low speed collisions where they are the main ones at risk because driving patterns change as we age - with most journeys becoming short and local

bjpaddy.bsky.social•11 days ago

This has been looked at repeatedly when an older driver causes a horrific incident (the woman who lost control of her car at low speed & ran over a toddler a few years ago was literally just round the corner from me) but DfT keep concluding the evidence doesn't support greater restrictions

hoxtonrich.bsky.social•11 days ago

There is quite a lot of evidence that points to increased risk especially at junctions but DfT clearly don’t want to go there politically which is understandable. We need much more effort in providing alternatives and a stricter licensing regime generally imo.

benrowe.uk•11 days ago

I wonder how much of that is a true data based analysis, and how much is based on a political calculation not wanting to upset the age group most likely to vote.

caye1.bsky.social•10 days ago

How about banning people from driving before 25?

cyclehavering.bsky.social•10 days ago

Retesting drivers would be a huge undertaking but the simple step of introducing compulsory and recorded eye tests would go a long way to solving this.

hoxtonrich.bsky.social•10 days ago

A good point and probably a pragmatic half way house although it isn’t foolproof if people don’t then wear the right glasses etc when they drive I suppose. Retesting could happen it would just require drivers to pay the costs of the system which they tend to find unreasonable in every other context!

engineerlikeagirl.bsky.social•10 days ago

Given the noise around winter fuel payments, do you honestly think any government would go there with older drivers?!
Also, we need to talk about young men...

maturinpotto.bsky.social•10 days ago

from that data, men shouldnt be allowed to drive until they are 25 years old at a minimum.

trelawnythebar.bsky.social•11 days ago

Drawing lessons from statistics is not straightforward. There is danger of confirmation bias and there are likely to be other, hidden, factors.

Remember, correlation is not necessarily causation.

andrenascotica.bsky.social•11 days ago

The fact that other countries have stringent rules around older people continuing to drive suggests that it's not a confirmation bias.

thinkitthrough.bsky.social•10 days ago

100%

skybluebrunty.bsky.social•11 days ago

My Mum was over 80-years-old when she drove into a bin by a bus stop and wrecked it. It could easily have been a child. When I found out, to her dismay I took her car keys off her and refused to let her drive. I registered her for Ring and Ride buses instead - and she absolutely loved them.

paultbg.bsky.social•11 days ago

I had an out patient visit to the hospital last week. On the way in I saw an older woman in a wheelchair waiting for her lift home. When I came out an hour later she was slumped over in her wheelchair still waiting.
It's already punishment.
I thought my 2 train, 1 bus journey home was bad enough.

paultbg.bsky.social•11 days ago

In the waiting room plenty of people were complaining about the difficulty of finding parking places at the hospital. Meanwhile, the BMW I saw parked in the bus stop on arrival was still occupying the bus stop area on my way out.

sbarlster.bsky.social•10 days ago

Don’t threaten the drivers!

stopglobalcooling.bsky.social•10 days ago

Suspect problem will diminish considerably when self driving cars are widespread

stopglobalcooling.bsky.social•10 days ago

Tests help?
Note some of the highest rates of accident are in the groups most recently tested.
Need a better test than that currently used?

brian.ppcis.org•9 days ago

Of course they are. Currently, the vast majority of recently tested are either new drivers or drivers convicted of motoring offences. That's a correlated, but not a causal, relationship.

ianternet.bsky.social•11 days ago

@transportgovuk.bsky.social
Just done my over 70s #driving #licence renewal
What a farcical waste of time
I'm fine to drive, but there are no checks at all
If I was a partially sighted, one legged, epileptic
I could get it renewed without question

cycleoptic.bsky.social•10 days ago

Just a way to get a licence renewal fee ? ( sooner than the 10 years?)

ianternet.bsky.social•10 days ago

no fee payable

cycleoptic.bsky.social•10 days ago

My wife has an original non photo paper driving licence, she has to pay…

ianternet.bsky.social•10 days ago

After that the renewals are free, it would appear.
Paper, or online tick boxes, no fee mentioned

bz2.bsky.social•9 days ago

If I'm reading that chart correctly, women over 70 cause almost as many KSIs as women under 70, despite being a much smaller group.

hoxtonrich.bsky.social•9 days ago

The chart is per billion miles driven by age. For older groups the KSI rate per billion miles is much higher but they drive a much smaller proportion of the total miles

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