The world's three best railways are Japan (private), Hong Kong (nationalised) and Switzerland (it's complicated). And that last one sums up the issue, that frankly while there are some areas (water, I'm talking about you) where private or state really matters, rail is not one: - ThreadSky

stephenkb.bsky.social • 46 days ago

The world's three best railways are Japan (private), Hong Kong (nationalised) and Switzerland (it's complicated). And that last one sums up the issue, that frankly while there are some areas (water, I'm talking about you) where private or state really matters, rail is not one:

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markgray.bsky.social•46 days ago

I'd agree *if* the ORR did its job, its powers were expanded and if at reletting contracts to TOCs there were conditions added. At the moment private and public interest are poles apart. On my line taxpayers helped fund platform extensions to 12 carriages; my TOC insists on operating trains with 8.

chelseachemist1.bsky.social•46 days ago

Hong Kong’s in particular works really well because they brilliantly monetise land around stations in a way in which we should very much learn from, especially in London

seektruthfromfx.bsky.social•46 days ago

The key to the Hong Kong model is that the MTR gets the land at the 'before rail' price and leases it to developers at the 'after rail' price. It would be unjust to do this around most existing London stations, since the railway has been there for a century and a half. And it helps that the HK 1/2

seektruthfromfx.bsky.social•46 days ago

government owns ~all land there & charges ground rent, so the 'before rail' price is known. HK model could be used for new lines though; this is how the early DLR was funded. Crossrail has gifted ~£20bn of land value increase to London landlords at TfL's expense, which is completely unfair. 2/2

invalid-handle.com•46 days ago

Pretty sure a lot of people involved in trains in London were involved in setting up or at least the big expansion of KCR and MRT too?

invalid-handle.com•46 days ago

MTR… getting my HK and Singapore acronyms confused I think

chelseachemist1.bsky.social•46 days ago

They were! And indeed the Elizabeth line was being run by MTR until this year, MRT is the SG acronym. Either way I propose we nuke all zone 1 and 2 stations from orbit and build mixed use developments on all the freshly cleared sites

elrondcupboard.bsky.social•46 days ago

Just a pity the rail firms have been forced to sell any land off for mates rates over last few years

Imagine selling the fucking railway arches what the fuck

stephenkb.bsky.social•46 days ago

A deal which basically no-one has done well out of, because I know absolutely no-one who does business out of a railway arch who would not rather have the railway as their landlord rather than 'Slow, Corporate and Anonymous Inc.'

elrondcupboard.bsky.social•46 days ago

That’s my experience as well. The initial impact was like beating a thousand small businesses in the face.

garethdennis.bsky.social•46 days ago

You're confusing two points: that the state owning railways isn't the most crucial element in them working doesn't mean it isn't also a prerequisite in them working.

garethdennis.bsky.social•46 days ago

Japan's railways (absolutely not the world's best) are reaching the point where their operating model no longer works. Otherwise: they are an exception in the high ranking railways of the world.

alexwilson.bsky.social•46 days ago

It's a solid case, I have always thought that the key difference between public and private in the UK is the efficiency of spend. Public seems to get more bang for back.

freewheeling.info•46 days ago

Quite so! In fact, I wrote a more verbose version. The only additional point I made that you haven't already covered more concisely is that small is beautiful, based both on UK and global experience. That's a worry if the future is a single national monolith. https://www.freewheeling.info/blog/public-v-private-isnt-the-most-important-question

mikeyearworth.bsky.social•46 days ago

You mention the privatised Japanese railways reinvesting profit, but don’t say whether they are prevented from massively leveraging their assets to fund dividends to shareholders (I’m thinking water here).

mikeyearworth.bsky.social•46 days ago

Good management, from an operational efficiency point of view, doesn’t necessarily have to correlate with ownership (nationalised or private).

stevewotton.bsky.social•46 days ago

We have several versions of water ownership in the UK for a comparison: Scottish Water, Welsh Water, English Cos (not been through PE ownership) and English Cos (that have been through PE ownership). An opportunity for objective review.

tcmorgan.bsky.social•46 days ago

How is it in the graph that France and Spain, who both have amazing HSR networks, have the lowest spend per capita?

stephenkb.bsky.social•46 days ago

The joy of building a lot in 1970 means you don't need to build as much (tho France's non city-to-city connections are where you really notice the infrastructure deficit).

tcmorgan.bsky.social•46 days ago

Speaking to German friends, they’re noticing the decline in real-time.

stephenkb.bsky.social•46 days ago

Yeah, I feel like you can really tell that the skimping on infrastructure has really started to become tangible on DB services, not just in terms of intangible things like delays but it is starting to be physically obvious to everyone, like UK roads. And UK GP services. And [you get the picture].

fornbirkibeinn.bsky.social•46 days ago

I think the Spanish network is relatively recent, but they manage to spend a lot less per km, partly because their settlement patterns are very different from ours.

samhufton1.bsky.social•46 days ago

100% right that money for investment is the key, not the specifics of ownership. However Britain's railways have been terribly fragmented by privatisation, with no direction on the objectives of the railway combined with overbearing restriction and short-termism from government

m-ttpa.bsky.social•46 days ago

Enjoyed that as usual. Any idea what the situation is with the land ownership around the current tracks in terms of what government could do with building alongside them when it takes over the franchise? I know one of the RMT’s main concerns with privatisation was it being used as a land grab

m-ttpa.bsky.social•46 days ago

What I’m professionally curious about with nationalisation (even though I’m extremely unlikely to ever work for ASLEF) is if nationalisation does lead to consistent terms and conditions across the board, investment in training new drivers, and monopsony power used to curb wages

alonlevy.bsky.social•46 days ago

Japanese private operations don't work anything like the British or increasingly EU model, though - there's no on-rail competition.

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