Here's a question I've been pondering: what would it take for an AI to be 'embodied'? I think an AI running on a computer inside a robot and controlling the robot body, could be called embodied. But what if the AI is running on a server, controlling a robot body via wifi? Is that still embodied? - ThreadSky

neuroskeptic.bsky.social • 28 days ago

Here's a question I've been pondering: what would it take for an AI to be 'embodied'?

I think an AI running on a computer inside a robot and controlling the robot body, could be called embodied.

But what if the AI is running on a server, controlling a robot body via wifi? Is that still embodied?

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neuroskeptic.bsky.social•28 days ago

Further to this: could an AI which controls a virtual body (avatar) in a virtual space be embodied? Does a body have to be physical?

proflhunter.bsky.social•3 days ago

The connections between real brains and real bodies are so intimate that there is no clear boundary between them (see interoception). Brains compute predictions of bodily needs and then select behaviors likely meet them. An AI without "bodily" needs can have no intrinsic motivation.

berndporr.me.uk•28 days ago

That reminds me of discussions looong ago over a few wines. Which lead to this article: https://www.berndporr.me.uk/inside_embodi/
This relates to the famour statement by von Foerster that in any closed loop system anything in the loop can no longer distinguish what's inside or outside.

berndporr.me.uk•28 days ago

However, one can ask why one needs a closed loop system in the 1st place and for that I'd refer to Maturana that unpredictable events force autonomous agents to create closed loops.

berndporr.me.uk•28 days ago

As you say the "embodiment" is a red herring isn't it? It's the perspective. After even a few more wines we drew up the 2nd chicken/egg problem: the farmer wants to have the egg while the chicken wants to keep it. Both are clearly embodied but farmer ignores that the chicken is closed loop but I/O!

jannisfriedrich.bsky.social•27 days ago

The architecture would need to be built so that the body isn’t just an output or input source but a true part of the cognitive system. E.G., by feedback loops at all levels of processing/cognition

r3rt0.bsky.social•28 days ago

it's not enough to have sensors and actuators, it would need to have skin in the game.

neuroskeptic.bsky.social•28 days ago

Agreed! Part of being (in) a body is relying on the body.

jhilden.bsky.social•28 days ago

I would argue that it would constitute a different, novel kind of ”embodied”, if the feedback is immediate and detailed enough. Also: depends if the AI *knows* that it isn’t actually in the body. Heh: new simulation conundrum: how can we know we aren’t remote operated!

neuroskeptic.bsky.social•28 days ago

Yes I agree, such a robot could *think* it is embodied, but I wouldn't call it really embodied. If the robot were destroyed, the AI would find itself bodyless but still active.

It does remind me of debates over mind/body relations!

jhilden.bsky.social•28 days ago

Unless, of course, there is a kill switch 😅
If there isn’t a school that believes people are remote operated there probably needs to be one…

jannisfriedrich.bsky.social•27 days ago

With skin in the game you mean desires/need to survive within the body? Not sure if this is a satisfying condition. For example, the ECC in England is an AI that regulates production of electricity for all of UK (including itself!) and it surely is not embodied (from Kate Nave‘s Drive to Survive)

r3rt0.bsky.social•27 days ago

ECC doesn't care about its decisions, it could cut its own electricity, as a robot could jump from a window... In living beings that caring is fundamental. It's about having skin in the game and know/feel it?

neuroskeptic.bsky.social•27 days ago

Hmm, I wonder - does ECC "know" that there is a single power connection which must be kept powered on (its own) in order for ECC to have the ability to control everything else?

That would be a first step to self awareness - recognizing a single point of failure of all future plans

tuomaspernu.bsky.social•28 days ago

Sure, as long as the relevant feedback loops are robust enough.

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