It's a month on and I still can't get over taxpayers' money – our money – being used to ship 55,000 t of coal from *Australia* just to "symbolically" smelt iron ore in the UK. Can't everyone see how ludicrous that is? Didn't help Labour at the polls either 🤦🏻 - ThreadSky

dangrey.bsky.social • 12 days ago

It's a month on and I still can't get over taxpayers' money – our money – being used to ship 55,000 t of coal from *Australia* just to "symbolically" smelt iron ore in the UK.

Can't everyone see how ludicrous that is? Didn't help Labour at the polls either 🤦🏻

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dangrey.bsky.social•12 days ago

Your regular reminder that the UK exports more scrap steel to be recycled into new steel abroad each year (8 million tonnes) than it smelts steel here (5 million tonnes)

Wild idea: instead of shipping millions of tonnes here there everywhere, just recycle with electric arc furnaces here

andygates.bsky.social•12 days ago

What is the lead time on an arc furnace project? "just" is going a lot of lifting.

dangrey.bsky.social•12 days ago

About two years. Scunthorpe already have the planning permission
https://britishsteel.co.uk/news/british-steel-s-125-billion-decarbonisation-plan-given-major-boost-as-permission-granted-for-electric-arc-furnace-in-scunthorpe/

dangrey.bsky.social•11 days ago

A few people are saying "but strategic!"; steel for the UK's nuclear submarines, for gun barrels and for armour plate are all made in electric arc furnaces, not in blast furnaces e.g.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-steelworks-begin-producting-artillery-barrels/

rcdavies.bsky.social•11 days ago

One of the key objectives of national policy must be to retain critical capabilities. There will demand for steel for years to come, so knowing how to make it from ore is a key capability. The electric arc furnaces will soon be online in Port Talbot, so both bases are covered.

colinboyle.bsky.social•12 days ago

Long-standing Green Party policy.

sammaclaine.bsky.social•11 days ago

Is it better to use taxpayers money to pay redundancy to 2,700 workers and then recruit new ones when the facility is modernised to make Steel from recycled scrap ? 🤔

timlagor.bsky.social•11 days ago

Probably.
Also probably better to keep paying them to not make steel (even if that means doing nothing -though surely something useful could be found for them to do).

There are major capitalist ideological obstacles to doing good things though

billheywood.bsky.social•11 days ago

I think domestic steel production is more strategic than symbolic

christiaan.bsky.social•11 days ago

Putin and Xi would love it if the UK shut down its own steel production.

nickybshaw.bsky.social•12 days ago

So in that case should Gov reopen or build new UK coal mines?

stockfttp.bsky.social•12 days ago

No bc coal is dirty and wrecking the climate and even if you don't care about that UK coal is the wrong type of coal for the above use and far more expensive than imports.

nickybshaw.bsky.social•12 days ago

That's true. I thought the new Cumbria coal might be nice was First grade seam? We are far behind for stand alone clean energy. And electricity use is increasing when h in very Green electric car and heating.
So what's the answer?

stockfttp.bsky.social•12 days ago

Cumbria still had high sulfur content so was unsuitable here or the EU so the biz case was based on it mostly being sold abroad

Not sure what you mean in the next bit 'h in very' ?

nickybshaw.bsky.social•11 days ago

'When H' is a weird auto add of words. It's been happening a lot thus past 2weeks. Changed all settings but nothing helps, even proof reading.

frankwunderli13.bsky.social•12 days ago

It's not symbolic. The furnace would literally be destroyed if it stopped running. Yes, it's from Australia, but running big slow ships is cheap and extremely efficient. 55,000 tons is just one third of the average(!) load of ships running that route. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capesize

isoma.bsky.social•12 days ago

I don't love fossil fuels, but building a different steel plant takes longer than the lead time on a shipment of coal.

timlagor.bsky.social•11 days ago

The fundamental point is that coal steel plants have to end.

The only question is whether this one should have been kept going a little longer and the case seems very weak.

frankwunderli13.bsky.social•11 days ago

Then demonstrate a working alternative at full production scale first. You can't? Then don't shut down the only way to make steel there is.

timlagor.bsky.social•11 days ago

The real question is whether keeping them running in any way facilitates getting sustainable steel production in the UK and I think it doesn't.

There might be a skills point but just giving the workers money and setting up schemes to maintain/build skills would surely be better.

rcdavies.bsky.social•11 days ago

You can't teach experience. It is fanciful to believe that taught courses can provide the same experience as working on the real thing.

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