andyswarbs.bsky.social
V4ta. Hot26 yoga teacher. #wfpb psoriatic arthritis since 1976. Vegan since 2016, making up for lost time every way possible. I'm here for one thing and one thing only - the animals.
Oh, yoga: where mind & body meet.
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Getting Started
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Arguing that animal exploitation is abstract is projection of the worst kind. Each animal, arguably with less intelligence than anyone on bsky, knows that the kill line is better known as horror street. The kill line is designed to block fight or flight response. Fear is all the animals have left.
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Yup. This and pesticide use on feed crops.
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If it stops people from killing animals needlessly then what's the problem.
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I think the decline in bee populations etc is directly caused by animal agriculture's insatiable land grab, demanding, so far, around 80% of all agricultural land. This limits the habitat of bees to marginal areas such as hedges - at best.
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I refuse wool because they slaughter the sheep and LEGO doesn't
Animal Ag is destroying far more nature than plastic, and the majority of the ocean's plastic pollution comes from discarded fishing nets.
Insects would be much more abundant if we rewilded land used for meat and dairy production
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youtu.be/clMNw_VO1xo?...
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99.999% people eat animal flesh just for the taste. If they can satisfy that blood lust with lab meat, brilliant. A total win for the animals.
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Please watch earthling Ed's video about bees and honey.
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Not eating animal flesh is important. But it is a consequence, rather than the main driver.
For instance if you want to eat lab meat, knock yourself out, have as much as you like, providing it's vegan.
Now do you see the point?
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You really are on a whataboutism strawman journey now. Claims that have no bearing on the ethics of the matter, which is
EXPLOITATION IS WRONG
if you can, at all costs. avoid it.
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The fact is originally "plastic" was made of plant materials until fossil fuels came along.
The fact also is we're now moving away from fossil fuel plastics back to plant-based plastics.
So really "plastics" is a non-issue.
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That's why good vegan advocates close down vegan bingo arguments as irrelevant to THE ethical question.
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The reason is everything in veganism. 100%. Totally. Nothing else. Just one reason.
It's THE ethical question of our time...
For those who can avoid animal exploitation, why don't they?
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Slavery: Initially most people thought slavery was right and needed (including many slaves).
But if I felt that slavery was wrong,then the real question is which side of history did I want to be on, even if it meant being isolated.
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There are some very high profile anti and ex vegans who claim to have been vegan. I know this is a challenging concept to understand.
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Ask them if they have to swallow their tongues whilst you eat meat? For the sake of social harmony many vegans stay silent. Some even look away.
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Isn't it? Sure, veganism is in the headlights, but if that concept didn't exist who would be next?
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Farmers just "love" their animals. No, they enslave, bully, exploit, do harm to docile animals for profit. investigations.peta.org/australia-sh...
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"Not moving the needle" - that's an empirical claim that should be supported by evidence. Do you have any? It's ok if this is just your intuition, but then we should have very low credence in this claim.
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Vegans welcome others who go plant-based. But being plant-based isn't the same as being vegan for the animals. It's in the very definition of veganism.
People who go plant-based do it for a variety of reasons. If any of those fail (eg bad dietary choices) then they'll stop being plant-based.
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I know you want to make this about "me", because personal attacks will get likes. Unfortunately they're not a credible argument.
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And there we go, silence. A claim that has nothing to back it other than prejudice.
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Have you got proven alternatives in the vegan space?
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You want to see point scoring? Watch any vegan debate as people play "vegan bingo". It's the protein, it's the crop deaths, it's too expensive, it's nature and many more.
Each one is debunked fully, but rather than admit they're wrong they change the subject.
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Claims that vegans are claiming moral superiority is a defence mechanism.
Find me one vegan whose morals actually changed the day they went vegan? You should find none.
Find me vegans whose actions began to align with their morals. That should be every single one.
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We can and must do both. Humans are incredibly complex, and what works for one person doesn't work for another. We need to fight for the animals on every front. Each activist has to fight according to their strengths.
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Ask yourself the same tough question about Gaza, a cause you identify with.
Do you want a total end to the conflict in Gaza, or do you want slightly better treatment for people in the Gaza strip, but one that ensures conflict goes on for another 1000 years?
(btw I am not arguing for capitulation).
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Welfarism: A fair point for clarification.
To be clear I am most definitely not a welfarist. Welfare approaches have been proven time and time again to dramatically INCREASE the number of animals going to the slaughterhouse, often with marginal improvements in "welfare".
I'm an abolitionist.
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Have a look at PCRM's take
www.pcrm.org/health-topic...
It also has a link to their find a doctor network www.pcrm.org/findadoctor
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She eats food that vegans eat. Where is your evidence she does it for ethical reasons?
If I missed a relevant post I'll apologise.
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There you go, throwing around words like "insulting" to try to distract from actual victims who, "at best", have their heads chopped off cleanly. And I am sure you claimed to aim for a higher standard. This is not a race to the bottom,please.
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A good point, only if she had a credible alternative. Otherwise it's just trying to silence people who believe they have a critical social injustice to be sorted.
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This entire thread is. It's as if the expectation of vegans to be quiet about it or nice about it is justified: it's not. Trillions of victims a year are reduced to what ends up being for taste pleasure.
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Putting aside if it's justified exploiting and slaughtering trillions of animals every single year - it's enough of an issue to not be silent over, the same way climate change is enough of an issue to not be silent over.
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Any claim without evidence can be dismissed. Do you have a research paper supporting your claim? Because I have many peer reviewed papers concluding the opposite. Research papers from different institutions over many years.
Here's one: 2018 nemecek & poore, Reducing food’s environmental impacts....
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I live by that tenet. Nowhere have I claimed anyone is evil or an asshole, unlike someone on this thread. I hope you do better by your own standards. We can have a civilised conversation without resorting to insults.
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No, but at the very least you aren't contributing to racism. Whereas anyone who consumes animal products is actively paying for speciesism.
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Nowhere have I been agreed with. I am very happy if someone eats a plant-based diet. Each person that so does is a positive for the animals.
But research clearly shows that those who don't get the ethical aspects are likely to revert,and blame veganism.That's a big negative for the animals.
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Where did I claim anyone is evil?
I don't ask for anyone's respect or being liked.
The ONLY thing I ask for is for people to think about why they don't leave the animals alone. And given the animals are victims, then to justify against their moral standards, not mine.
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Are you sure it's not you who is tone deaf? The word vegan was coined in the 1940s by the founders of the vegan society. Nowhere in that definition does it talk about dietary choices, excepting as part of avoiding animal products overall.
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If you have a problem with my clarification of veganism please say so. Your bio says you are keen on certain activism. So it seems strange that you are happy dissing those that are similarly bent on fighting for the oppressed.