I think the biggest failing of Windows is making the update process so annoying and so disruptive that there is a dangerous amount of people that would rather never get security updates then have to deal with Windows Update
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Windows?... I have windows on my house, and that's where it ends. Linux, on the other hand, is completely sidelined by hardware manufacturers. I wonder how much they are paid by ms, apple,.... to be so irritatingly deaf.
From a security perspective, yes. For performance, DLLs should never be a thing. It adds and extra step for every time any application calls the kernel. And they wrote their kernel in C++ instead of C like anyone sane. Windows fails on multiple levels.
Its true there are many libraries in Linux, like Glibc, but if you need to call the kernel directly, you can. If you disassemble and create exploits for Linux, you can call the kernel directly. With Windows you can only call a DLL to call the kernel. So I will agree you a partially correct.
The kernel is mostly concerned with memory management, process management, and file IO, as far as I am aware. You don't need a DLL to do any of those. And even if you did, I have never heard anyone claim that doing so is an issue.
Could you provide a specific example of what you are referring to?
The kernel is like the engine in a car. If a program needs to read or write to disk, open a socket for Internet, etc. it must call the kernel to do such. Windows doesn't want people know know how their kernel works. So programs have to call a DLL, which must then call the kernel instead.
Functions, when compiled, are just memory addresses of executable code in RAM. And when you call a function, you're just calling assembler instruction JMP which then executes code at the target address. It doesn't matter if that code at that address is
a method exposed by a DLL file, a Kernel API, or a BIOS system call (if we were allowed to access BIOS directly), the code exists and executes just the same as far as the processor is concerned.
A DLL is the same thing as a shared library in Linux, and has nothing to do with the kernel.
Shared libraries don't usually call the kernel. You can do that way, but you don't have to. So they are Dynamically Linked Libraries, so binaries don't have to be statically linked. I'll give you partial credit here.
The whole idea of a kernel is to abstract operations like disk IO, memory mapping, and display output away from a program being executed by the kernel. Kernels do this through an API, for example, the API which allows files to be opened and closed. Pretty sure you never needed a DLL to open a file.
Yes, but the dlls are being called constantly. Thus they are a bigger over all drain on performance. This can contribute to an overall slower experience to the user. What you're talking about is an annoyance, but not so much a performance issue.
This is so true. I once tried to resuscitate an old Windows laptop, and of course, once I connected it to the net, it started downloading and installing updates--often with reboots--and I discovered that it was taking so long that the rate of new updates exceeded the rate of installation.
If they didn't deliberately use every update as an opportunity to switch your browser settings, ask you yet again for all your telemetry and push the perennial 50% off O365 subs, people wouldn't even notice updates other than it taking a bit longer to close/boot one time.
It legit makes me feel like I have to set aside time just to update. It was the main thing that pushed me into Linux when I got an update mid-game and couldn't pause it.
I think the worst part is most updates aren't just security updates anymore. I don't need telemetry settings reset, extra apps installed, and annoying UI changes bundled with kernel patches
I found out that my Win11 laptop was saving all my desktop files into onedrive. The DESKTOP files. I wasn't allowed to open my files on my DESKTOP when searched because they were automatically in ONEDRIVE. And this was after I unsynced it from the whole computer.
I hate that they push their features so much that they're willing to surreptitiously break basic things like "files saved onto desktop are on the computer itself". I feel like I'm constantly cleaning up after these useless features.
I realized this a few months ago and spent like 15 min moving my documents (because the "documents" folder insists on syncing) to one called None of your Damn Business properly located on my computer lol
It's so frustrating moving all the folders that in every single edition of windows have been locally saved onto the local drive because Microsoft decided that they want everything saved onto the cloud.
MS have live patching going, its just limited to Azure VMs at the moment (there may be some small on prem license to allow it). It will come, probably with a end user consumer Windows subscription model. Then everyone will shift their complaining from Windows Update to the subscription.
A month? I freshly installed a machine, and it took an hour just for initial updates.
The only time I had this happen on Linux was when I was poorly cloning a drive over because I transferring from a USB drive to the main SSD when testing Manjaro.
That's been a major perk a friend of mine has been experiencing with their switch over: updates don't always require reboots and you can do them whenever you are in the mood.
Their only complaint? Flatpaks sometimes needing TWO updates because of a stranded package.
Forcing you to update Windows at the worst possible time has to be a close second. Nothing like staring at an update screen instead of logging into your virtual court date or meeting.
At my university we used to get notices saying "Your computer will automatically restart in ten minutes" and you couldn't make it go away. I'd be in the middle of a lecture, or teaching with five different docs open I was switching between, and it'd restart. 😡 Now they give us 1.5 hours. 🙄
Next time this happens to you, open a terminal and type in "shutdown -a" - that may abort the pending restart.
This is assuming that the message you see comes directly from Windows; if your university uses some management tool, you need to suspend/kill the related process
one of the biggest draws of linux to me is the ability to update stuff without restarting, and not having a ticking clock forcing me to update. It can genuinely be dangerous because i live in a place where it storms a lot and theres a real chance scheduled updates i cant cancel happen mid storm
Please note that the fact that it doesn't force you to restart doesn't mean you don't need to
Kernel or systemd updates need to have the system restarted to apply. An individual componentes (databases/servers and such) need those components restarted
You know about /var/run/reboot* files? One tells you a reboot is needed to get the latest code loaded, the other tells you what component(s) need the reload. True on Debian and RedHat Linux families, probably true on other Linuxes.
I was running Debian Stable as a desktop these past few years and the utter silence on the update cycle was calming. Weeks would go by with nothing new when suddenly... Oh, ffmpeg got an update!
The fact it updates whilst you have files and programmes open, so you lose your work is very frustrating. I frequently pause updates, which may leave me at risk, but sometimes the only way to manage it.
That and the fact that the UI is the same as it has been for 20+ years. It has just gotten a facelift every major update to make it “modern”. At his point it’s just putting makeup on a corpse though, as windows 11’s UI experience is absolutely horrible for anyone who doesn’t use it as a Chromebook.
I switched to Linux partly because I bought brand new 2021 hardware in 2021, built a computer, and then was told it wouldn’t be compatible when W11 later that same year.
This in conjunction with other things, I’m just genuinely all set with this bullshit. I got enough annoying stuff to deal with.
i'm a linux user myself, and i obviously prefer it, but what 2021 hardware do you have that wasn't supported? there isn't a cpu from AMD or Intel that was released in 2021 (or any time after 2018) that isn't supported. at worst, maybe your TPM wasn't enabled by default on ur motherboard
I’ve been told this before, and I know I could go flip some switches. Hell, I did a bunch when figuring out why some stuff on my laptop wasn’t working.
Call it dumb, or stubbornness, I just couldn’t be bothered.
Something in my head just was like “okay, I’m done here with this for good.”
For years and years I’ve been increasingly not happy with windows and then not being able to just click update in an era where phones, osx, and Linux all do this felt insulting.
I get that. I was always into IT from childhood, but I'm so burned out by the corporatism I take no joy in fixing or using computers anymore. I'm moving our MI data "into Azure", once that is done I'm going to find another line of work entirely.
YUP. I have a computer that runs literally everything just fine, can run brand new games, whole shebang but then i have MS hounding me to "buy a new computer for Windows 11"? lmfao it'll be a cold day in hell before i buy a new PC purely for an OS.
do people even pay for windows anymore? I thought most people use KMS or Massgrave if they build their own PC and need to activate, and if you buy a PC or laptop from any company it already has a license
My work computer started offering me games to install. The fact that I have no permissions to install software (nor should I) doesn't matter.
MS OS is a marketing vehicle, hence GB of "security updates" that break things, slow things, and don't actually fix their flawed architecture.
That actually sounds like a quite sensible decision, given that Windows perpetually defaults to "hack me, root me, backdoor me, pwn me" in every update.
Not to say that MacOS updates have picked up a nasty habit of breaking shit and that I've skipped updates repeatedly because of it, but still...
What makes it even more annoying is when you think you are updating Win 10 and after the update you get this terd called Win11. That was my last straw. I'm all better now running OSX again after 10 years.
Might it have something to do with the 3rd world H1B programmers who flooded the Microsoft campus roughly 14 years ago? The same folks who have made the quality of most all commercial software go down hill...
There is no reason for an OS to require a restart unless you're updating the OS kernel itself (and even then, Linux Kernel Trampoline was a thing 20 years ago, and similar tech was there decades before that on mainframes)
Hahah, my wife would open her laptop one day, and neither Google nor many other pages would load because of expired CA certificates embedded in the system. 😁
Fedora does offline updates (meaning installs on startup) bc yeah even on Linux updating software while running can cause wonky behavior. But it's not so dramatic or God awfully slow about it.
The biggest failing is that they made it so configurable.
It just needs to fucking update on a set schedule and people need to fucking deal with it. If it wasn’t optional and happened regularly, people would adjust their expectations and behaviors accordingly.
“If you want to use Windows, then we have to manage this because you’re too restarted to be trusted to do it yourself.
If you want to be an adult, go download Linux and manage it yourself, we won’t be liable for it and you can come crying when your box won’t boot after you ignore it for years.”
I agree Windows is flawed but it's where PC gaming is. I know Linux is rising but Linux is distro dependent, if you distro isn't built for gaming chances are it will require manual configuration. So people still use Windows for this fact
It depends. If you use Steam, steams built in Proton tool means it's literally just > install Steam > set proton as default > install and run games as normal.
I have Ubuntu, POP and Fedora running on machines all of which pretty much the same
This is no longer true, my steam deck (which runs on SteamOS (which is Linux)) plays every game in my library. There are a handful of specific genres I would not want to play but that’s handheld-specific, not OS related.
(*Unless you’re playing League, in which case I’m sorry for your soul)
Definitely, gaming on Linux is arguably better than Windows - especially for older games. It's also waaay easier developing games for Linux then cross compiling to Windows & Mac (it's what I do, CWS is 100% Linux)
They call everything a security update now, but really they are trying to push some shitty feature onto you that makes the user experience worse. I’ve blocked updates completely since they’ve never done anything useful for me. It’s the boy who cried wolf.
The reason MS introduced Patch Tuesday at all was because back in the late 90s Gartner wrote a report advising corporations to get the fuck off of Windows, because security was so bad. That report shook the pillars of heaven.
Couldn't agree more. When faced with the hypothetical threat of attacks or the very real threat of Windows Update just ploughing through my working setup, I will regularly defer updates until I can brace for them.
Why/how do you find it annoying and disruptive? They'll happen automatically, only occasionally requiring a reboot, which can be programmed to be, also, non-intrusive.
My laptop has a weird trait of losing wifi connectivity if i put off a win update a few times. Eventually i just won’t be able to do ANYTHING and then i set it updating & that sorts it. No idea, but its rubbish.
That sounds like you have a wi-fi driver issue, which Windows is attempting to correct but you won't allow it to. I can assure you that I manage several laptops and there are ZERO issues with updates, which happen behind the scene and as expected. And any updates should only be postponed once!
I was going to suggest that, Windows does not always find the best/most recent drivers for 3rd party software. There is a good software for updating drivers, Driver Easy, which was free until a few months ago, now it is paying...but still good. Though, if just the wi-fi, try a manual renewal of it.
I will go to the manufacturer’s website first. Windows has never managed to fix anything itself when it offers to troubleshoot, in my entire life. Its like its just taking the p*** to waste a bit of time…
I'm also not happy with the fact that they keep trying to make me use their AI. I have zero (0) interest in it and I cannot figure out how to turn it off permanently
You can't. Even in a corporate environment where I personally disabled copilot through Group Policy, every time we push and update it gets re-enabled despite saying it's disabled still.
I’m one of them. Mostly because every time it updates it also reinstalls Bing, and then I have to do some registry edits to get rid of that pernicious little fucker. And reinstall my Bluetooth mouse and keyboard drivers.
Yep the eternal game of cat and mouse where MS keeps adding things to the desktop/taskbar which I don’t want and remove. Over and over again. Hoping to grind me down.
I got tired of the weird update schedule from Windows years ago.
Looked at all the programs I use, browser. email etc etc etc and figured that I don't even need windows at all.
Downloaded a free version of Linux and that had every program i need and more.. free.
Does it all for me.
Same. When I buildt my PC. I considered getting windows and just not activating it. Then I realized that half the software i use is FOSS and available on Linux. Linux also has Wine and Steam. Only learning curve is the terminal ,updates and the occasional driver. All fixable in the terminal.
only windows 10 i use is in virtual machine for some old PLC programming apps. (I gave it NAT internet, my bad). I open the VM in a factory env and get those update things. Linux so flawless and convinient.
when does windows 10 stop getting security updates... cant remember if its this year or next year and we are forced to go to windows 11 which ive already tried and hated... i miss windows 7
What is truly insane? There is a knowledge base number KB######## that you have to COPY AND PASTE into a search engine to find out the details. They can’t even be bothered to hyperlink it.
I still run Win7. Have a new Win10 and unassembled modular computer sitting in boxes for a year because I don't want to deal with Microsoft's bullshit.
This is extremely difficult to believe. I’ve been using Macs since 1987, and supporting friends and companies running Macs since then. In all that time I have literally *never* experienced or heard of an Apple-supplied update trashing a hard drive.
Yep twice - first time they made me bring the iMac to a store where they accidentally erased whatever might have been salvageable and then also replaced the screen they cracked during repairs. 2nd time I luckily had insurance through att and was fully backed up. Old computer (2015) but still…
Every update ends support for more older apps and operating systems.
My CD and HDD backups dating back to the mid-1990s are increasingly unreadable.
Who would call this progress?
I would still be able to read those files if I'd stuck with a pencil and paper.
You do know that the MS developers go to great lengths to make sure that legacy software continues to run? You can’t have it work forever though. An example would be the shift from 16 bit to 32 bit to 64 bit, that’s progress not planned obsolescence.
My fav, setting WU to download only, then go to shut down my laptop & see "please wait while we ignore settings and apply updates requiring reboot now... 1%, 2%,... 5%..." NOPE! *slams laptop screen down and shoves it into laptop bag for it to overheat and lose power* Not my problem, I told you no.
My computer blue screened after the update in November. I had to buy a new one. The new blue screened after the update last week. When is the class action suit?
Honestly, what? Never felt a reason to fear a windows update. Am restarting my PC every other week (using hibernation inbetween) and then just let it run. Windows 11.
personally I've had issues with the windows update service making certain software on my PC run way worse so I have to constantly disable it to make my computer usable. It's insane to me that Windows forces such a shitty process to run CONSTANTLY that is supposed to just check for updates.
i do this with pretty much all my devices. I hate updates bc they can change my layout without my input, and I'll cling to the old version for as long as I possibly can (until it won't open/work without the update)
I don’t know much about windows updates but my understanding is that it downloads the update and then reboots to install it… why can’t it just install in the background and then if there are files in use / files that can’t be overwritten install those on reboot?
I still give yours the upper hand but a close second is the fact that they've been layering their settings menus since vista or something and it makes configuration a GIANT pain in the ass. Even if something is wrong I'm liable to put it off just to avoid the menu diving.
For Christ's sake why the fuck would anyone make the file explorer context menu link to the old version of that context menu for more options? It is not possible that this was the best idea from their UX team, I simply cannot believe it.
Plus for no reason they make it SO HARD to be able to update your computer to Windows 11??? Not everyone can afford to get a whole new computer, and they have a billion requirements to make your computer eligible like IF YOU WANT US TO GET WINDOWS 11 & DISCONTINUE 10 THEN MAKE 11 ACCESSIBLE
Add to that disabling/removing programs like the good mail & calendar apps, and stuffing in reminders everywhere that your PC sucks and can't run the latest OS.
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I have no idea what this means, could you elaborate?
Calling a function exposed by a DLL should be basically the same performance as calling a function directly compiled into a program, as far as I know.
Sure you can call the kernel but unless you have a good reason to do that you usually don't anyway
Could you provide a specific example of what you are referring to?
Functions, when compiled, are just memory addresses of executable code in RAM. And when you call a function, you're just calling assembler instruction JMP which then executes code at the target address. It doesn't matter if that code at that address is
A DLL is the same thing as a shared library in Linux, and has nothing to do with the kernel.
>download game overnight
>go to sleep
>windows decides to update
>computer reboots to linux
>wake up
>whatthefuck.png
Not even 2 GB of the game downloaded, thanks Windows
🙄
On a fast processor and slow processor: difference is 5 minutes.
Linux: 5 minutes in all. 1 restart.
The only time I had this happen on Linux was when I was poorly cloning a drive over because I transferring from a USB drive to the main SSD when testing Manjaro.
Needless to say, I should have just installed it.
Torrents.
Win11: max 25 MB/sec
Linux Arch: max 99.7 MB/sec
Same machine, reformatted, clean installs.
Their only complaint? Flatpaks sometimes needing TWO updates because of a stranded package.
This is assuming that the message you see comes directly from Windows; if your university uses some management tool, you need to suspend/kill the related process
Kernel or systemd updates need to have the system restarted to apply. An individual componentes (databases/servers and such) need those components restarted
As for databases, etc, I manage those with Docker and upgrade less frequently.
(This is more a general updating software gripe, but Windows is definitely topping the list with Windows 11. Nothing I want, stuff I hate.)
apt update ; apt upgrade
Generally Windows can be extremely disruptive - on my older system System will just take over my machine for 20 minutes.
But Update - the absolute worst. To just essentially crash your system without your approval is INSANE.
On Linux: oh, new stuff. neat.
Not quite as smooth as Linux upgrades though to be clear
This in conjunction with other things, I’m just genuinely all set with this bullshit. I got enough annoying stuff to deal with.
Call it dumb, or stubbornness, I just couldn’t be bothered.
Something in my head just was like “okay, I’m done here with this for good.”
It’s not laziness, I know that.
Burn out, maybe.
For years and years I’ve been increasingly not happy with windows and then not being able to just click update in an era where phones, osx, and Linux all do this felt insulting.
Linux updates no issues on the same hardware with no changes.
It’s not that I’m being intentionally ignorant or bad, I just kinda hit a breaking point with windows as a whole. Years of garbo.
I remember M$ claiming Windows 10 as "the last version you'll need to upgrade to" just a few years ago 🤦
And now that Win 10 is no longer being supported later this year, they forced us out.
My machine is running 100000% better on Linux.
MS OS is a marketing vehicle, hence GB of "security updates" that break things, slow things, and don't actually fix their flawed architecture.
Not to say that MacOS updates have picked up a nasty habit of breaking shit and that I've skipped updates repeatedly because of it, but still...
I have had problems with hitting shutdown or restart without updating only for it to install updates anyway. Makes a simple restart a pain in the ass.
It's kinda like when you can't edit a file that another program is using. Same with any other part of the windows system.
Linux allows you to edit open files unless there's a lock. Apps generally just load it into memory.
Also updated software with deep kernel integration breaking on launch if the new kernel isn't loaded.
Please restart your computer after updates when possible!
It just needs to fucking update on a set schedule and people need to fucking deal with it. If it wasn’t optional and happened regularly, people would adjust their expectations and behaviors accordingly.
If you want to be an adult, go download Linux and manage it yourself, we won’t be liable for it and you can come crying when your box won’t boot after you ignore it for years.”
I have Ubuntu, POP and Fedora running on machines all of which pretty much the same
(*Unless you’re playing League, in which case I’m sorry for your soul)
And then it functions worse than before.
Looked at all the programs I use, browser. email etc etc etc and figured that I don't even need windows at all.
Downloaded a free version of Linux and that had every program i need and more.. free.
Does it all for me.
I reached out immediately to the Ubuntu community on Reddit and got my outreach deleted.
Zero ability to control changes
Joke OS from Jokers
My CD and HDD backups dating back to the mid-1990s are increasingly unreadable.
Who would call this progress?
I would still be able to read those files if I'd stuck with a pencil and paper.
software.