Yep. And all these platforms, including Twitter, end up harboring echo chambers. Because no sticky social app can keep us from ourselves.
Maybe the best we can hope for is an explosion of the fediverse et al that ends up like old niche forums, with less pretense of reflecting the broader world.
I've found that when somesone uses the term 'echo chamber' as a criticism, 9 times out of 10 they have a terrible opinion they feel you should be obligated to listen to. I don't need to hear 'alternate views' on my rights as a human, thanks/no thanks.
MAGAs complaining that Bluesky is an echo chamber while doing their very safe and friendly interview on Fox and Friends lacks any sort of irony for me.
I’m one of them. I enjoy mixing it up with conservatives. It’s why I’ve been watching Fox and Newsmax for years. Listening to other libs is like hearing myself think. Affirming but not very informative. But I get it.
They're with random people from class or work. People are a lot more compatible than most people think.
I think it's more important than ever to hold ourselves accountable to intellectual standards. And echo-chambers are simply a contributor to intellectual laziness and stupidity.
Yeah, like, in a stretch of hunting down troll account, every now and then, I would run into people who lean right and are reasonable about it. The single issue pro-lifer who is otherwise libertarian, the red leaning boomer who is curmudgeonly but seems to honestly engage. They can stay.
The only people to be removed are
A) Blatant poisonous trolls who are just here to start shit. Not to talk but just to troll
B) People vile that there is no good discourse with them (eg full neonazi "death to trans, can't wait to see the minorities in death camps, hope Trump SAs more women"
Sure but I think the term echo-chamber has been over used to mean “a place people with similar values and interests” which can be a positive environment as opposed to “a place where one view point is the only one tolerated”.
Both yes and no, right? On one hand I don't believe bluesky is an echo-chamber, but some people on here are blocking every right-wing person on-sight.
And the quickest way to fall into the trap of being in an echo-chamber is dressing it up in flowery words.
But why the insistence that social media *not* be an echo chamber. I have real life for that. I’m allowed to find my community to engage with and I don’t need it to be a place of challenge. I have plenty of challenge outside of the internet. Why the insistence that you have to be exposed to all.
I personally don't see any point in engaging with people who don't even deem me as a person worth respect. I use social media for entertainment, and I challenge my world views with people in real life. Not every aspect of one's life has to be intellectually challenging. Existing is fine.
Whether or not they deem you a person worthy of respect depends on how divided the sides are on any issue, and the individual person's mindset. Surely you're not already painting the entirety of all right wingers as a monolith...?
I don't. However, online, if someone posts about how there's a "woke agenda" or "immigrants are ruining everything," I have absolutely no reason to keep that person in my orbit. I have no connection to them and no reason to interact. But sure.
It’s definitely a square-rectangle thing. I don’t see anything wrong with blocking people who you don’t agree with and don’t want to discuss with. It’s a gradient like most things in life. Blocking literally Nazis? Probably a good idea. But at what point are you making an echo chamber?
There's definitely something wrong with blocking every opinion you disagree with. You should be able to handle a difference in opinion between you and others. If you block people you have a disagreement with, and you're not having discussions with people you disagree with, you're in an echo-chamber.
I never said every person or opinion you disagree with. I’ve rarely ever blocked people, but that’s because I don’t care if I see dumb opinions. If a posts comes on someone’s feed that they don’t agree with, why should they engage? If they shouldn’t have to engage, why should they have to see it?
I'm all for dissenting comments, but just be respectful. Musk was a beacon for the dumbest people on the planet to finally have a voice that was in no way whatsoever deserved. It became a real life Monty Python skit.
Every single post I have looked into in this thread saying "well akshually, I have lots of friends who I fundamentally disagree with politically" is on an account whose other posts are just right-wing trolling. 100% bad faith.
The ones bitching about echo chambers have 4 separate echo chambers to themselves and they still wanna follow us to the one that moderates hate speech.
Total difference between echo chambers, and propaganda fueled nightmares. We don’t have to listen to hate filled rants to know they are wrong. Sadly they hear the truth and deny it even in their echo chambers. Sad.
I tell my parents all the time, there is a difference in opinion and then there is a difference in morals and character! Who wants to be around bad people??
I've blocked maga friends and relatives from my real life.
I zero shits to give about blocking them from the clear Blue skies I have created for myself here.
nobody forces them to be here, there's a minor social media platform full of bots and crypto scams where you can say just about any kind of offensive BS you want
Those on the other side always think their views need to be heard. Actually I think most of us are aware of their views and talking points. We just don’t agree with them. They do not get it.
I'll say I've definitely seen 100x as many people complaining about people complaining about echo chambers, versus people actually complaining about them. I guess that's good?
A) We're not friends.
B) Research shows echo chambers lead to more extreme positions.
C) It really depends on how extreme the social censorship is.
D) We shall see...
Let me just respond to the below quote in this thread by saying that not every space has to be a classroom. Sometimes it's OK to have fun.
"The discourse here is inoffensive but you also learn exactly zero over here."
Idk I learn plenty....I don't have to hear from bigots, Nazis and racists to learn anything other than that they are terrible people who shouldn't be listened to. 🤷♀️
I don't have to let things into my mind that I deem harmful or that will pull me off my spiritual trajectory. The bulk of what MAGA people, "Christian" or otherwise, believe is heresy and in opposition to my values as a Jesus follower. So I don't need to listen to it. Neither do non-religious folk.
There’s lively disagreements and then there’s fundamental differences in morals. We all have our limits, we’ve all met people we don’t want in our lives or social circle. It’s OK to not want to be around them.
Right?! I'm tired of pretending that letting strangers berate me for no reason is for my "intellectual benefit." Maybe, I just want to have a pleasant conversation for once? XD
Like no shit I tend to surround myself with people who are less likely to disagree with me every chance they get, it’s more peaceful and fun to hang around people like that. It only becomes a problem in a professional setting where decisions need to be made by informed individuals.
Being terminally online (in what I assume they consider to be a “regular chamber”) has a side effect that being around “normies” (or “people” as most refer to them as) means you blurt out anything and everything you’ve learned while in the regular chamber because you have no filter any more
Precisely. I know a lot of Republicans in real life.
What I don't know are people use racial and ethnic slurs, idolize Hitler, tell me to get back in the kitchen, or want to repeal the 19th Amendment. And if I did, I would avoid them.
Exactly. There's a reason I left my hometown in NJ and came to New Orleans. I grew up in a racist echo chamber. I physically, emotionally, psychically and intellectually had to bounce for my survival.
See, I don’t typically choose to hang out with people who think I’m less of a human. Those are people I HAVE to come in contact with but would prefer not to spend my precious downtime with, yanno?
You only have friends that echo your own thoughts and ideas?
Not being friends with the far right and racists etc is good and normal, limiting your friend group to an actual echo chamber is kind of sad to be honest.
Isn’t that so true! Kindness, generosity, compassion, honesty, support, protection, always gets the benefit of the doubt — pure delightful echo chambers of love.
My reply on this thread:
It’s hilarious how you muppets think that we’re obligated to deal with your bullshit. Boundaries are healthy. You’re all toxic. We do not fucking like you and we can choose not to interact with you. In what world is that, “censorship”? Say wtf you want, just not on my tl. 💅🏼🙄
I have found myself in real life conversations with trumpers as they speak loudly and assume everyone feels the same and when you try to offer a different view of the subject they become angry and aggressive and do not listen. So they are their own echo chamber by design.
I like to go to that subreddit and yell about how I hate bowling a couple of times a day just to keep them on their toes. They need to hear both sides.
This has actually happened with trees and marijuana. I can't remember the sub names anymore (don't use reddit) but people started posting plant pics of weed in r/trees and eventually they swapped.
The fun thing about the replies to this is that most of the people who have shown up to vehemently disagree or say "people can be friends with someone with different politics" are right wing and terrible.
I expect they don't have friends, but instead people who tolerate them.
Comments
Maybe the best we can hope for is an explosion of the fediverse et al that ends up like old niche forums, with less pretense of reflecting the broader world.
They do tend to be very right wing...
Are astronomers living in an echo chamber because they won’t engage flat earthers?
I think it's more important than ever to hold ourselves accountable to intellectual standards. And echo-chambers are simply a contributor to intellectual laziness and stupidity.
A) Blatant poisonous trolls who are just here to start shit. Not to talk but just to troll
B) People vile that there is no good discourse with them (eg full neonazi "death to trans, can't wait to see the minorities in death camps, hope Trump SAs more women"
And the quickest way to fall into the trap of being in an echo-chamber is dressing it up in flowery words.
Difference of morality: “Your body, my choice.”
Difference of opinion is fine.
If so, does anyone know an Eskimo that lives in Kent?
I zero shits to give about blocking them from the clear Blue skies I have created for myself here.
My message to them...
It's good to get views from people that are incorrect.
B) Research shows echo chambers lead to more extreme positions.
C) It really depends on how extreme the social censorship is.
D) We shall see...
"The discourse here is inoffensive but you also learn exactly zero over here."
Bonus of blue sky people: smart enough to know what an idiom is so I can use them again!
Like no shit I tend to surround myself with people who are less likely to disagree with me every chance they get, it’s more peaceful and fun to hang around people like that. It only becomes a problem in a professional setting where decisions need to be made by informed individuals.
What I don't know are people use racial and ethnic slurs, idolize Hitler, tell me to get back in the kitchen, or want to repeal the 19th Amendment. And if I did, I would avoid them.
If that's an echo chamber, I'm okay with that.
Sounds great. Sign me up.
Not being friends with the far right and racists etc is good and normal, limiting your friend group to an actual echo chamber is kind of sad to be honest.
It’s hilarious how you muppets think that we’re obligated to deal with your bullshit. Boundaries are healthy. You’re all toxic. We do not fucking like you and we can choose not to interact with you. In what world is that, “censorship”? Say wtf you want, just not on my tl. 💅🏼🙄
After that success, I will help Swifties out of their fandom and convert them puritanism and to swear off all music.
Echo chambers, amiright?
The best tool to combat echo chambers is Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Initiatives.
But we all know that the only thing consistent about people who rally against both is their goal is the ability to harass and abuse.
I expect they don't have friends, but instead people who tolerate them.