Capitalism embraces human nature. Socialism is idealistic.
I consider myself something of a socialist, but I’m not going to pretend that it doesn’t work because of capitalism. It doesn’t work because humans seek power and dominion over each other.
I consider myself something of a socialist, but I’m not going to pretend that it doesn’t work because of capitalism. It doesn’t work because humans seek power and dominion over each other.
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Ahhhhh
Every time I try to think “why did this or that socialist project fail” the answer is usually something capitalist have done or do all the time and survive. So it feels like an insufficient answer. Capitalists are more powerful and better at centralizing power and deploying it without mercy.
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If you really think that despotism and greed are human nature, but mercy isn't, then it's because you've sacrificed your humanity.
If you don't "teach" people, you lose justification.
Capitalism's alienated educational system does similar: teach and instill greediness.
Socialism is scientific and materialist, a planned economy of production to meet needs of those in control: the workers, for Communism.
Humans are naturally communal, selfless, and cooperative. It’s literally our strongest evolutionary adaptation.
You know maybe instead of pretending you understand Socialism, you could actually engage with dialectical materialism? Ya know, so you won’t make asinine declarations or ask disingenuous questions.
You can be a pessimist about human nature as a driving reason to be socialist: spread power out instead of concentrating.
The most intelligent animals have evolved to work together in groups to further their species- humans, dolphins, elephants, crows, chimpanzees.
Humans existed for hundreds of thousands of years before capitalism.
In humans, we accomplish anything by banding together into tribal super-organisms.
It’s both, right?
The problem is that some people tend towards one extreme, some the other, and some are in the middle of the spectrum.
Even then, capital as we understand it today wasn't really a thing until colonialism.
Right? Or are you only interested in the history that backs up your point.
Humans literally did not have a concept of "privacy" or capitalism before a certain point. To some degree, this was just practical: there was no such thing as capital wealth; what would that even look like?? More ... wood toys?
Wolves hunt in packs, people!
Capitalists (and apologists) argue that humans have a FIXED nature that doesn't change (greed, self-interest, etc). This is scientifically wrong.
I agree. But I still think it’s a spectrum. I think that even if society can push most people into good behavior, aberrance is a big problem, especially at the top of a hierarchy.
I was objecting to the way that online socialists here lately prefer to blame capitalist countries 100% rather than engaging in thoughtful self criticism.
Part of the reason I’m an anarchist and not a communist.
I’d love to be proven wrong.
Thank you comrade, welcome to the party.
Capitalism accounts for human greed by also allowing for violence and cruelty. Utopian my ass, we just look the other way.
no other species uses tools/technology as much as we do. we use them to change our environment, and, in doing so, we change our own nature.
as a socialist, you need to recognize this.
But capitalism is only a few hundred years old & is itself the child of other older unnatural hierarchies of power.
Socialism is my ideal and I believe we should strive towards it. But, from what I’ve seen of human nature so far, it’s very difficult.
You're an idiot
Power is merely instrumental.
- socialism
= uh, something
2. The vast vast vast majority of humans do not set out to steal and hoard resources to keep them from others in need so I wouldn’t call that “human nature”.
Like other social animals Humans naturally form communities in which they extend mutual aid.
capitalism incentivizes the worst aspects of human nature. under capitalism you can do the most heinous shit like evict an elderly person then just say “it’s not personal only business” and people nod
Such bullshit about “human nature”.
Settle down, Hemmingway - you’ve no insight.
human nature is cooperation, capitalism has perverted your mind so badly you cant even see it.
Sharing exists because most of us are willing. Not because there is no greed in humanity
Then it's contextual and circumstantial.
Capitalism, and existing within it, provides circumstances and contexts that incentivise greed.
And I think this is the 2nd part of Arendt’s argument, that given proper circumstances, humanity can go basically any which way.
But, to me, that means that socialist systems have failed so far because of (mostly) internal failings, not because of capitalism.
Don’t bring all of us into your greed
that's bullshit. you just grew up with it and benefit from it and are afraid of losing your standing.
People just want the powerful people that have dominion over them to actually care about their material conditions. Just look at China, where evil authoritarian socialism is literally just working.
We don’t all have them in equal amounts. There are some people who are much worse than others and can hide it while presenting themselves as noble leaders.