“progressive politics is making men angry” really isn’t the same as “right-wing media capture is telling those men to be angry.” it’s the second one. if we seize the levers of info power, a lot can change
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I've had these kinds of friends, I tried to push them into describing what kind of progressive politics they did not like and it was all vague and incoherent. They can not define anything left-wing, they just know they've been told that it's bad and that they should hate it.
As someone who maintains an awareness of the vileness on 4chan this is an extremely underappreciated point. /pol doesn't care about "policy views" and they decided they want a "day of the rope" before many of them were out of school.
I agree. Part of that is also the overreporting on TFG; it feeds into what I think is some perverse desire to watch the Senile Racist Grandpa Show, which I believe is what a lot of people were voting for. Entertainment that also destroys the world around you.
It amazes me how much some progressives and leftists underestimate how much conditioning/education right wing media does.
Once you’re in that sphere you’re bombarded by their propaganda on morning shows, evening “news”, and 24/7 on streams, YouTube channels and social media posts.
It's been a very intense 60+ year program (HRC's old "vast right wing conspiracy" - that's what she was taking about) starting from the Heritage Foundation founding and before.
That's a good point. Dem policies don't benefit the wealthy elite so why would they throw money at them? But yeah, I get being super angry about social media poisoning people's brains one way or another but unfortunately, things are likely going to rely MORE on it, not less. It's that dopamine, man
Completely agree. Right wing media uses intense emotional appeals and keeps things colloquial to make you feel like the presenters could be your friends and keep you feel like you need to keep watching, and to just generally get super threatened and feel the need to "protect."
I mean Bezos owns WP. But other than that, I haven't seen an updated media chart in a long time so I'm not sure how left leaning things are anymore. I usually only read AP.
1) They're a lot worse at it than the RW guys.
2) They can't lie (the RW guys can lie as much as they like)
3) They still have that hangover of "let me just tell you the facts and you decide" = non-persuasive.
4) their message is about the *good* stuff they're doing. Bad is 5x stronger than good.
Totally. Because the left is predominantly educated, the standards are just really high and they are scrutinized for every little thing they do (which politicians SHOULD be). But even using myself as an example, I nearly wrote off AOC after that rail worker strike vote. One thing made me doubt her
I think left-wing media has to get people to care bout so many different things (which people should) and people don't always agree. It isn't as simple and unified as right-wing media. There are several different kinds of liberal, I don't think that exists in the same way with conservative.
You aren't taking power away from people who think bigotry is correct (or just don't care about labels, like most authoritarians) by calling them bigoted. It's like complimenting them.
I hate it, but it's true. I'm a trans man and sometimes I feel... unwelcome. I feel like all the hatred towards cis, straight men has only pushed them further to the right. I've been saying that since I was still in high school. We need to stop generalizing and lumping our allies in with the enemy.
I have never seen so many men be more sadistically misogynistic in my life. They're saying "your body, my choice". I am not going to gently treat men with kid gloves and treat them like victims when there is a growing movement for women to be under male control
I understand being upset, but judging an entire group of people for the actions of individuals will just not work out if you want that group to support your candidate 4 years from now.
Feel free to act as you please, but things will not change if we use the same strategy again and again.
huge agree. many people don't want to really face it either. my dad is a cis (leaning on nonbinary) bi man and barely interacts with other progressives because of the view on men. I myself am a trans man and the treatment of us is a whole issue on it's own, but it includes us being men
me and my dad were just having a conversation about this earlier today. conservatives have very extreme, radical views, but so do progressives. the right has seeped into so much it's difficult to avoid and uncondition yourself from black and white extremist thinking
and before anyone mentions that men have it easier- sure, yes, many men have lots of privileges but those can be revoked, withheld or don't exist for certain demographics of men. the toxicity towards men in left-leaning communities only makes things harder for us to work together as a community
Both men and women have their own issues and I feel like whatever one lacks, the other takes advantage of. Men have more privileges in most spaces, but ignoring their issues or telling them that they will be made into second-class citizens... isn't going to pull them over to our side lol.
If you defend non balanced politics you are going to cause division, and we know that there people out there who do this in the right and in the identity politics division. We must find a balanced society where everyone seeks good relations and people rights are respected.
Right wing media controls radio, most pod casts, most news channels. It has the backing on billionaires. Yet America needs to take full responsibility for the utter fuckery that is about to be unleashed.
I've been saying for over 25 years that we were making a big mistake by allowing Major Corporations to buy up the 195+ Independent Media Outlets we had in the 60s, 70s. They are now all owned/controlled by less than 10 Major Corporations, who now publish ONLY what they want us to see.
And I'm saying that it was very specific forces and very specific groups of people, with very specific interests, that did that, and they didn't consult the rest of us, and it was not done with our interests, and we don't have the power to change it. So, no, there is no "we" in that sense.
I believe that had we protested both the Government and 'We, The People' in general, back in the 60s and 70s when Big Corporations started buying them up, back when Big Business and the Government were far more willing to listen, we stood a good chance of stopping it. We no longer have that option.
As a man who is also sometimes a woman, I try to find a balance between positive and negative, masculine and feminine energy. If you want to make men angry, then you need to try being a man for a while. That might change your mind.
building on this: the problem with the first isn't that it's false, but that it's irrelevant. Changing "progressive politics" won't meaningfully alter the result, because the RW-captured media will just tweak their making-men-angry outputs (and/or lie).
In fact, it's *true* - large swathes of "progressive politics" (due to the composition & dynamics of the social groups where it happens) are unnecessarily hostile to men, and we should fix this. But doing that won't move popular perception, because perception is not created at the policy level.
OH yeah, further polarization of US society will surely fix the issue of a broken two party (one right / one very right).
You talk as if there is a media vacuum on the left, where that could not be farther from the truth, the issue is people get to pick their media. Why pick media critical of you?
How do you seize them, you think? I worry that progressives put too much faith in being viral when it's basically preaching to the choir. The people outside of the progressive bubble are the ones to reach, and clearly they are not being reached.
MAGA has an entire digital ecosystem of propaganda and influencers at work on a regular basis. A progressive alternative is desperately needed. If the GOP is going to stay in their extreme then Democrats need to fully immerse into theirs.
My brother in Christ, it wasn't mainstream media that did it to them. No amount of seizing power will give you the power to stop fascists from posting on Youtube.
Also those levers were in your hands for almost half a decade, and look what happened.
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Once you’re in that sphere you’re bombarded by their propaganda on morning shows, evening “news”, and 24/7 on streams, YouTube channels and social media posts.
There is no equivalent on the left and that's what it would take to even try.
How about people get the fuck off of social media because it is brain poison?
There are consequences to your convenience and entertainment.
2) They can't lie (the RW guys can lie as much as they like)
3) They still have that hangover of "let me just tell you the facts and you decide" = non-persuasive.
4) their message is about the *good* stuff they're doing. Bad is 5x stronger than good.
MSNBC?
The Nation?
They’ve got the same problem, sure, but they’ve also never had the traction or massive audiences that rightwing media has.
They figured that part out
Calling out authoritarians on their bigotry takes their power away.
I am a progressive man and bisexual, and the amount of toxicity towards men is sometimes just too much imo.
https://bsky.app/profile/moiradonegan.bsky.social/post/3laepwtdzns27
Feel free to act as you please, but things will not change if we use the same strategy again and again.
We need to combat and destroy the right-wing media aparatus.
Now what to DO about that?
An you want me to take feminism seriously?
https://torontosun.com/news/national/study-finds-nearly-45-of-trans-women-inmates-convicted-of-sex-crimes
If you defend non balanced politics you are going to cause division, and we know that there people out there who do this in the right and in the identity politics division. We must find a balanced society where everyone seeks good relations and people rights are respected.
You talk as if there is a media vacuum on the left, where that could not be farther from the truth, the issue is people get to pick their media. Why pick media critical of you?
Also those levers were in your hands for almost half a decade, and look what happened.