saganritual.bsky.social
I hate hero-worship. Jesus was a morally bankrupt dolt. Muhammad was better, but still wrong. The US Founders: self-serving aristocratic slaveowners. Ned Stark: a judgmental lying hypocrite. I often get high and post things online that I probably shouldn’t
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Funny, when I thought you were just trying to shut me up, I refused. But now that I realize you don’t see how we “liberals” are being manipulated too, now I’m shutting up. I guess despair works better than insults at shutting me up
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If u don’t see that the “liberal” media & politicians are deeply compromised by capitalism & using propaganda to manipulate us (yes, somewhat differently from the right, but still), then let’s just not bother. It fills me with despair. We’ll never fix it if we don’t recognize the underlying issues
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Jesus told many stories where a righteous rich person inflicts the brutal and sometimes fatal wrath of God on wicked poor people. He told precisely one story where the poor person is the protagonist and the rich person is wrong. Subtext suggests that Gospel Jesus is indeed Republican Jesus
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And in a free-speech environment, there’s only one antidote: education. Somehow the worshipful founding fathers overlooked the need for the voters to be strong in critical thinking skills and media literacy. Or maybe they never intended commoners to vote, which seems far more likely
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Remember that miniseries about Chernobyl? The nuclear physicist is shut down by the guy who used to run a shoe factory but has his high office due to loyalty to the corrupt leadership. I thought it was exaggeration for effect at the time, now we’re seeing it in real life
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As bad as it sounds, that could be a good thing. We could use a reboot. How about a Constitution that doesn’t rely on good will and good faith on the part of politicians, whom you’ve noticed have always been hypocrites except during your lifetime?
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The American voters have been under-educated and propagandized for 250 years. We’re not superheroes. Disinformation disenfranchises people who haven’t been extensively taught critical thinking and media literacy. It’s not the voters who got us here, it’s the system created by aristocrat slaveowners
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And again, given the examples you listed, I can see that you’re informed, which tells me that you know as well as I do that Ds use propaganda too. Perhaps your real objection is the word “collusion”. Maybe “Ds are standing around letting Rs railroad us for at least 40 years” would be more palatable?
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And instead of just telling me it’s preposterous, you could have asked for more examples from me. Like Obama bailing out the banks while leaving us commoners high and dry. But maybe you just wanted me to shut up. No, I will not. Something smells really, really bad in the D party
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In the interest of not splitting hairs, I’ll grant you “allege”. But the real misrepresentation was in the examples you gave. I didn’t suggest Ds are colluding with Rs on the things you mentioned, and I clarified: I do suggest a level of collusion due to Ds being millionaires who love GOP tax policy
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We don’t need to train the influencers. The guarantee of free speech allows influencers (and the media in general) to lie with impunity. We need to train the consumers. Critical thinking, media literacy, and a strong sense of civic duty are the only antidotes, not reliance on good media behavior
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It seems to me that “messaging” is for populations that aren’t taught critical thinking and media literacy and civic duty all throughout their childhood. If we were taught how to defend ourselves against propaganda, we could “message” ourselves individually
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Speaker Pelosi was worth $250M last time I checked. When she was challenged on her privileged access to oceans of money, she said, “It’s the free market”. I don’t think that was her playing “necessary evil” cards for the benefit of you and me
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Heh, it’s just my contribution to the world, admittedly possibly not worth anything, but it’s all I have to give lol
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Yes, there are significant differences. The Dems are slightly more likely to listen to us. But we’ve been on a knife-edge for at least 40 years. There’s got to be a reason for it. I don’t think it’s coincidence. I think if the Ds were really on the side of us commoners, the split would be different
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“You grossly misunderstood” is not how to share a different perspective. Your apology seemed more sincere before you started trying to claim you were “just sharing”
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Tip for future conversation: engage with the ideas, not the person. Challenge me to prove/explain, don’t insult folks by dismissing them outright with “you grossly misunderstood”. Billions of your fellows who are otherwise nice people would say you grossly misunderstood and kill all conversation
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If you read Jesus carefully and notice his subtext, you’ll find that the hateful people are more in line with his views. Remember “love thy neighbor”, the second-greatest commandment? Look up the real context in Leviticus 19. It’s explicitly racist
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I never said I lean toward Islam. I said Muhammad is better than Jesus but still wrong. I say he’s better because M actually cared about poor people and took real, tangible, practical action to help them, instituting a tax as one of the pillars of the religion. J’s ideas on the poor are nonsense
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No, I see millionaires who benefit from GOP tax policy, and when we challenge their obvious conflict of interest, they rattle off nonsense like “it’s a free market” and I suspect that there’s a level of collusion. Thanks for misrepresenting me, that’s real friendly & conducive to conversation
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If tariffs hurt consumers, then this trade war is strictly among the power-mongers of the world, vying for power and control at the expense of all us commoners, while they sit fat and happy and claim they’re public servants. Why do we let them treat us this way?
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Please tell them we’re deeply sorry
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It was already a government of millionaires, by millionaires, for millionaires. DJT is not the problem, he’s a symptom of an already long-broken system. If we ever get any kind of vote again, we really need to demand massive reform
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Is anyone else suspicious of the fact that we’ve been on the knife-edge for so many elections? I’ve always sensed that the two parties in the US are colluding at some level, and the fact that our country is somehow so evenly divided for so long is really suspicious
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And there are countless people in the world who call themselves Christians who would say that your notions of Jesus bringing salvation are signs of a gross misunderstanding. I don’t understand how you (or any of your brethren) can take a superior tone over anyone
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No, you originally took a superior tone and told me I’m grossly misunderstanding without giving me the slightest benefit of the doubt, without even asking for details. And yeah, I think Muhammad was better, having extensively read the Qur’an and other works about the life of Muhammad
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Yes, you’re still suggesting that I’m taking something literally. I’m not. I’m asking myself why this moral visionary uses torture to teach compassion, rather than something that would actually work toward teaching compassion
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I’m not taking it literally. I’m taking it seriously. If he wanted to teach compassion in the torture story, there are a million things the king could have done other than torturing the guy. The fact that Jesus chooses torture is meaningful, wouldn’t you say? He wouldn’t toss around idle metaphors?
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Fair enough, you admit your errors, I respect that. Maybe we can have a conversation, but not if you haven’t actually read the bible. That kindof rules you out on having any kind of reasonable opinion, I think you must admit that if you’re honest
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Nowhere have I suggested a literal interpretation. If he uses metaphor where the good person commits war crimes or tortures people, we can learn quite a bit about his morality. And I’m pretty sure you haven’t quoted any scripture in this conversation. I begin to suspect your integrity
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I don’t even know what you’re talking about. I’ve given you specific examples of things I’ve read in the bible. You’ve misrepresented the contents of the bible. I’ve read it extensively and repeatedly. As far as I can tell, your “understanding” is based on what you “learned” from your religious fam
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And no, the New Testament does not start after the crucifixion. It starts with the beginning of Jesus’ life. Who are you to tell me I’ve grossly misunderstood when your understanding is obviously based on hearsay rather than actually reading it?
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No, that’s moral relativism, not the timeless morality advertised by Christians. Also it’s not just OT. As I said, Jesus tells a parable where the “good” person commits a war crime. Also a story where a “good” king has a citizen tortured on a whim, no laws broken, no trial. Do enlighten me
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According to the bible where God repeatedly orders the Israelites to commit war crimes and where Jesus tells parables where the “good” person in the story commits war crimes? Please, wise, superior interpreter of holy writ, tell me how I should be understanding these atrocities
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I get a much-needed dopamine hit when someone upvotes my ravings. Sue me
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I’ve read that bible. It deserves his name on the cover
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He drained the swamp so he could build hi-rise luxury condos for the predators
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It’s the only safeguard against the fact that free speech allows the media to lie and mislead. Without strong critical thinking skills, deep understanding of politics, and a sense of civic duty, disinformation is disenfranchisement. Too bad our worshipful Founding Fathers didn’t address it
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I’m alking away
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Friend, I suggest that your nostalgia is misplaced. The men who wrote “All men are created equal” were slaveowners
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Unfortunately we have already been pretty close to the epicenter for our entire history
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Let’s not forget the horrors that have been caused by the actions of the US government throughout our history, such as toppling democratically elected governments and replacing them with US-friendly puppets. I could only wish the world would gang up on our so-called leaders on behalf of the people