Electric cars are far more efficient than petrol or diesel cars. They use a third of the input energy and 6 times less fossil fuels in the UK. Source @ember-energy.org - ThreadSky

janrosenow.bsky.social • 25 days ago

Electric cars are far more efficient than petrol or diesel cars.

They use a third of the input energy and 6 times less fossil fuels in the UK.

Source
@ember-energy.org

Comments

andrewknight.mainbastards.online•22 days ago

Ok but DON'T BUY A #TESLA people...

For christs sake.

Literally anything else

monniauxd.bsky.social•25 days ago

(Is this because an internal combustion engine sends out approximately 2/3 of its combustion energy as heat into the atmosphere, due to the maximal Carnot yield?)

westlad.bsky.social•25 days ago

Yes, although it doesn’t reach maximal Carnot efficiency in normal use.

barbaricus.bsky.social•24 days ago

True.

And yet, only thing people will understand is cost.
Efficiency is not going to convince anyone to switch as most people do not handle large numbers well and do not understand impact of such efficiency gain on a global scale

havantenviro.bsky.social•24 days ago

That's why i did this graphic for electric and hydrogen.
It shows how far you can get on a fixed amount of energy.
Or in other words if you pay X, it shows how many miles you would go.

barbaricus.bsky.social•24 days ago

I understand and agree.

And what I hear as counterpoint is e.g., ‘but how long does battery last’?

Total cost of ownership of an EV is a mystery to most folks. All they see are issues pushed by media.

How much does EV cost per month vs. ICE in your zip code?
That is easy to calculate.

martinwwhite72.bsky.social•25 days ago

Petrol cars are only ever 25-30% efficient anyway! The rest is mechanical losses, heat and noise.

nuallach.bsky.social•25 days ago

Not a sceptic by any means but what sort of carbon/ material footprint, or whole life footprint do EVs have in comparison to ICE cars?
I know the critical minerals needed for EVs is quite intensive to produce

bimblinghill.bsky.social•25 days ago

They're about 30% more carbon intensive to produce, which means they break even with ICE at around 20,000 miles.
https://www.whatcar.com/news/how-green-are-electric-cars-really/n24646

robertosfield.bsky.social•25 days ago

The article suggests it'll be closer to 7k miles:

"As a result, the ICCT calculated that the EV in the UK would have to drive an extra 7061 miles to catch up with the Golf – the equivalent of about a year of driving."

Longer term it'll be quicker as production and local grids de-carbonize.

bimblinghill.bsky.social•25 days ago

Sorry, yeah the 20k figure was from somewhere else. Both figures are probably out of date anyway what with how fast the grid is greening. Also I imagine once recycled battery materials start entering the supply chain in significant volume, the embodied carbon will fall further,

havantenviro.bsky.social•24 days ago

When I had a car some 25+ years ago, the average yearly mileage was 12k.

So about 2 years driving to break even and then saving after that?

robertosfield.bsky.social•24 days ago

Have a read of the article, it's just 7k miles to break even.

Average yearly mileage is now down to around 7k so around a year.

Likely less going forward as extra CO2 emissions for batteries are coming down and UK grid continues to decarbonize.

nuallach.bsky.social•25 days ago

Think how green the electricity generated is locally will be a pretty big factor, still plenty of gas and coal being used in UK that probably lengthens the time to get parity

bartvdpoel.bsky.social•25 days ago

In the Netherlands 400.000 people already have a variable electricity contract. Most have an electric car they charge when rates are low, aka when there is a lot of wind in winter, a lot of sunshine in summer. Can't do that all the time, but often enough to lower the CO2 of your car with 50%.

robertosfield.bsky.social•25 days ago

That's exactly what is happening here in the UK as well - for us we're on an EV tariff that has 8.5p/kWh charge between 0:30 and 5:30hrs which happens to be the really low gCO2/kWh period.

https://carbonintensity.org.uk/

Range for tomorrow is a low of 61g/kWh around midnight up to 250g/kWh at 6pm.

bartvdpoel.bsky.social•25 days ago

Half of these contracts are from the ANWB, the Dutch automobile association who started selling electricity for their electric car owning customers.

brownest-ant.bsky.social•25 days ago

The UK no longer has any coal fired power stations and those fortunate enough to have PV panels can charge directly from their own rooftops on summer days.
You can’t do that with a petrol or diesel car.
https://business.itn.co.uk/ratcliffe-on-soar-closure-the-uk-shuts-down-its-last-coal-power-station/

nuallach.bsky.social•25 days ago

Yea I thought Kilroot still ran coal but it switched to gas in 2024
I get the idea of charging the EV off PVs being an ideal, my original query was more to do with the carbon break even point of EVs, there's still a heftier material outlay to create EVs and their infrastructure vs ICE

nigelh36.bsky.social•25 days ago

No coal in the UK at all now. And gas met only 28% of UK demand over the last year. Renewables did 37%.

nuallach.bsky.social•25 days ago

Sorry thought Kilroot still ran on coal but it switched to gas last year

janrosenow.bsky.social•25 days ago

Coal???

nuallach.bsky.social•25 days ago

Sorry thought Kilroot still ran on coal but it switched to gas last year

nuallach.bsky.social•25 days ago

Thanks for this. Came into my head because last year I heard a firm that procures a lot talked about switching to a whole life cost model and had said ICE were still ahead even on many environmental markers

spencerstrasmore.coys.social•24 days ago

Yeah, it depends on the context, I suppose. But that's a lie. Batteries have a second life before being recycled.

bimblinghill.bsky.social•24 days ago

There's quite a lot of proposals for second life use, and there have been investments in recycling. However these options are yet to be proven at scale for the ironic reason that batteries are lasting much longer in their *first* life than expected.

bimblinghill.bsky.social•24 days ago

We still haven't found the limits of the ultimate life of modern batteries, or how effectively the raw materials can be recycled back into new products, but all the recent data is pointing to them being much better than estimates from even just a few years ago.

spencerstrasmore.coys.social•24 days ago

Exactly, but that isn't a bad thing. Recycling plants are coming on line at a slower pace for the reason you mentioned. That should be all over the news instead of "My replacement battery cost me £16000000000000." But hey, oil lobbying. The 2nd use application has also grown.

erikdeboer.bsky.social•25 days ago

On the other hand, these metals you can reuse after the EV is end of life. There are documents on EV vs ICE cars: https://www.cotes.com/blog/greenhouse-gas-emissions-from-ev-vs-ice-vehicles

tlh101.bsky.social•25 days ago

📌

mainedpcdoc.medsky.social•25 days ago

Walk, mass transit or e-bike when possible but until we change our infrastructure, EVs are a necessary part of the solution.

pauly.world•25 days ago

… but if anyone can explain the “ESB” app to me please, I’d really appreciate it. It looks like it was designed on a budget of £500 & written in jQueryUI.

I have £20 in Shell, ESB, & BR Pulse… each. The apps always seem to mess up 4/5th of the time.

pauly.world•25 days ago

However,if they’re any flats or office blocks with you, and you know an electrician… They can make a converter for the wall-plug they use for the cleaner’s HenryHoovers…then a series of extension cords… then you can charge up your car quite easily. It takes about 72 hours - but it’s definitely poss😂

aninewforest.bsky.social•24 days ago

Certainly property developers will need to adopt the standard of installing convenient outlets in the garage or car park. Most homes have cars right out front so it doesn't require a lot of logistics. I myself plug my mobility scooter into a mains outlet by the front door.

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