TTRPG players!
hypothetically, how would you feel about a stamina system?
basically performing all actions, including those outside of combat such as searching, lockpicking, persuading etc would cost stamina, which would recover on short rests limited by level
in combat, regen each turn
feedback?
hypothetically, how would you feel about a stamina system?
basically performing all actions, including those outside of combat such as searching, lockpicking, persuading etc would cost stamina, which would recover on short rests limited by level
in combat, regen each turn
feedback?
Comments
So in short, it could work, but gotta stay mindful ^^
- Many dungeoncrawlers have your resources (torches, water, etc.) get used up and wandering monsters for extra time taken
- Some games, like Swords of the Serpentine, literally have skill points that get used like you're suggesting.
Does the PC know they missed something? No? Then they might try a second search, but not more than that
Do we have time to repeatedly pick this lock?
You can try persuading someone again, but they get tired of listening, DC goes up
Purely nonviolent applications can be simplified by simply tracking time spent and moving the world accordingly
Or maybe it'd be that exploration actions put a strain on your maximum stamina until you rest. Could be interresting to have character end up in a fight after climbing and fight tired.
Would you be able/meant to use most of your stamina each turn and have it refresh fully between ? Or would it be a slower ebb/flow ?
It doesn't have an official translation to english unfortunately :/
Dice pool systems seem to work too. So many bonuses you can tap before needing a rest
Different out of combat actions could have different max stamina penalties, so players have to weigh pros and cons
Because a player *can* do something, they will. Be that resting after every encounter, or attempting a check over and over until they succeed or the GM steps in.
There's this system i'm running rn that uses stamina instead of hp: you lose it with some special actions, or when you take damage, and when it reaches 0, leaves you vulnerable
@jackkaiser.bsky.social knows much more about it.
Though it would kinda suck in a series of scenes to have no more stamina when it doesn't feel reasonable, so balance!!
You take 20 times as long as normal, but assumes you rolled a 20.
When you are under pressure of any kind, you can't take 20.
I will always answer directly to the player if Take 20 is an available option or not, for the sake of game flow.
within combat i think the usual action + bonus action format covers stamina, adding another mechanic would probably just overly complicate that
You can use fp to do things like jump farther, get an additional attack, cast spells or in Mt campaign use cyberware's full potential.
Low fp is crippling.
It takes 10 min for 1fp to restore. A moderately healthy human is likely to have 10.
My setting also has vampires with blood points. They can be spent like fp only they only can be recovered one way...
Like for example, maybe Attacking costs a certain amount of stamina, alongside moving, and you only get so much stamina a turn.
why not just use it as a cost for stunts, push-your-lucks, and special abilities?
But it needs to be fun. It needs to be made as something to manage, without going into a "this sucks and prevents players from having fun."
It would almost certainly suck. A lot.
It's an interesting thing in game and saved us sometimes, but in his sistem, when stamina is zeroed, the player gets slower and tired and receive penalties.
(Which is not good bcause we're playing silent hill XD)
If the players want to perform something tasking, you could warn them that it will get them exhaustion point.
As for lockpicking, for example, say they might alert the guards on a failed roll or simply break the lock
They can try, but unless it’s a nat20 they get 1 exhaustion point regardless if they succeed or not.
And on nat1 they pull their back and gain disadvantage on all ability checks till long rest.
For combat I think it's fine but depending on how crunchy the system is managing more than 20 points could get annoying
Since magic utilizes mana/SP, Stamina for physical actions seems fair.
Having a finite points system means they can retry if they want, but need to decide if it's worth the extra cost.
In that game you play as cyborgs and for your action economy you use a very stamina-like resource to determine what you can do in a turn!
Im very for it, personally!
Doing a bunch of dumb actions to get a feel for a place would go from a bit of a laugh to very dangerous, almost giving a Survival Horror-ish vibe?
In the right setting, with the right DM this could work?
For example, in my head, if TP were as well regulated and balanced as MP is nowadays in XIV, I really think it wouldn't be the problem it used to be. Detach it from sprint, etc. Let Ninja Mudras actually be tied to magic (ala ff1)...
So I think stamina cost alongside a stamina regen system could work well, but it'd be really dang difficult to implement well
I think ppl used to much floatier systems like 5e that is more vague when it comes to downtime would bounce off it tho
I had an idea years ago for a system which ran off a deck of cards you could only replenish by resting, with the cards being your interactions but also your stamina.
Never got further than the concept stage with it though
Feels like needlessly granular detail
That said I'm happy to read about it, and try to keep an open mind!
I'd honestly prefer being told "You can't retry 'X' check without a change of tactics" - (1/2)
If you really want a mechanical disincentive, boost the dc for each successive attempt. The lock getting damaged, physical fatigue, unverified knowledge, the npc getting annoyed at your requests/threats/lies - raising the dc covers most things.
I bring up that Pathfinder has an optional stamina system based on Starfinder a but that’s basically two health bars one easier to heal type thing.
Maybe have an hp and a stamina pool, hp is harder to recover, but stamina you get back on a breather. Basically stamina laways acts as temp.hp you lose first in combat. I thin pf2e did something like that in premaster
When I need to have a player chill on trying to get a reroll, I just advise them to try another approach and different skill. This usually gets them to think and makes things interesting
I mean, sounds cool.
Could definitely add some flavor and limits to work around for a lot of stuff. Could even use it as a tradeoff for attacks, reactions, and skill checks. (Like burn x of stamina to hit harder or break out of a grapple.)
But I am still intrigued by it. Sounds really cool.
AP (Action/Ability Points)
What GURPS does that I like is that you have a stamina stat but only use it for really exausting stuff, like spells, combat, heavy labour, etc.
(Sorry if somebody already mentioned this)
https://blogofarcanesecrets.wordpress.com/2018/09/29/my-experience-with-the-dark-souls-tabletop-rpg/
it. A good DM can manage this without cumbersome rules.
I think D&D’s bigger problem is its focus on combat and reliance on d20 dice rolls over character-developed skills and player roleplay. I think this is where other systems like GURPS just do a better job.
Generally speaking, if there's no time constraint to what they're doing and they are meant to get through a door? Just let them pick it. However...
Narrative systems help teach this, IMO!
"Failure to keep careful track of time expenditure by player characters will result in many anomalies in the game."
Which is exactly what you're talking about.
A stamina system is just wonky timekeeping.
How's it work on downed people?
If the area isn't safe, make them keep watch and risk an encounter. The time is your consequence for assumed failure, and the encounter is your risk.
Plus it saves time at the table.
- If the players had the time and ability to do the challenge, why put the challenge, just ask how they succeed. A success doesn't need to be on the roll, the stat can make you assume "yeah, I guess you're good enough to pull it off". Delta Green has a few tests where the book(...)
- If the test is time sensitive, yeah, you only get a try because you can't do it again
- Assume the failure as a fact. You didn't fail because you "got unlucky" and should try again. You don't have currently the tools and/or the knowledge right now to pull off what you wanted to try.
I detest the stupid idea that all rp should be 'yes, and'
Just say no.
"I failed lock picking, but I have dozens more tools, so i can get it eventually"
"Nah, you failed. That stinks."
As you are straining your body to accomplish that task
Just raise the DC every time they try as a way to show them getting more tired.
There is a mechanic in the 2d20 system that can increase and decrease challenges, depending on player success. If they succeed they get Momentum/Action Point that they can use to lower challenges, but failure raises it and gives 1 for the GM to use later.
GM: you tried to pick the lock 3 times, it is beyond your current skill you get no more attempts
There are game systems that give you a penalty for subsequent attempts. Like 2nd try gets -1, 3rd try gets -3, 4th gets -5, and so on.
if there's nothing in-universe stopping them from continuing to work on it, then it simply succeeds (or maybe you roll for time spent)
you don't have to invent pressure for every task
I found it shifts the narrative more towards having meaningful failures, so rather than just "you barely failed to unlock the door", it's "you picked the lock but the guards heard you."
Cuts down on repeat tries too.
1 point system of how many of X thing you can do per Rest/Refresh Period/etc helps limit the Inifnite Try X functions.
As well - look at the meta wquestion: WHY do players keep trying a challenge over and over and over?
Or if multiple people are trying to dog-pile just say "Only two of you can try."
My table usually understands the limitations I place like that.
My design suction for this is to take a roll as part of the narrative and world building.
The 20 STR barbarian failed to open a door. -> it's too heavy and bolted dug up into the ground. No strength roll will open it, move on. Also teaches players to be mindful of who is rolling for what and let's everyone have their turns to shine.
There's also times where you can fail forward instead. Maybe the 20 STR Barb didn't fail due to incompetence, but jammed the door shut (requiring additional rolls) and alerted some guards with the sound. Now you have an encounter!
Things like this are part of the planning for me.
As a result, eventually it stops being worth trying. Especially when comboed with other consequences.
With a stamina system it might discourage creative solutions as players might want to save up all their stamina for combat etc.
https://bsky.app/profile/legendsmith.bsky.social/post/3l3nbl5d2kf26
IE yeah, you can re-attempting the lock, but you're either gonna be here taking worsening modifiers untill it's impossible or you're going to be here for in game hours.
I like Genesys' approach, where the players help the GM with consequences.
As to a system where you don't get multiple tries... Monster of the Week and other PbtA tend toward a one-task, one-roll philosophy. (barring stuff like Help Out) to aid the main roll...
So, like if someone says they're investigating the scene of a monster attack....
And that is assumed to be all the info they get. Someone else would have to investigate differently...
So someone else rolling to investigate the same thing does nothing because we already determined what exists in that line of inquiry.
That said, it might be an interesting mechanic for a game built around a strict time or energy limit. Maybe Oxygen supplies in a space game?
In old school DND you solve this problem by using dungeon turns. Every action (picking a lock, searching for traps, etc) uses a turn and every time you roll for a random encounter. This pressures players to keep moving.
It also makes party movement in a dungeon away easier to handle!
This roll represents your ability to do this for this day. It won't get better. Just like knowledge tests. You don't repeat.
Stamina system would only make the players not do anything, afraid of wasting stamina.
If you don't want players to bash their head into something until it works, You're going to have to put in extra Effort.
Otherwise Your session is over in 30 Minutes and the game starts to feel like Frontierville from 2010-era Facebook. 'Need more Energy'
Resource drain can be via items (lockpicks, arrows, bombs) but global stamina would make players too conservative.
Or I try to avoid requiring checks for things that the players can and probably will just retry until they succeed.
If there's no failure consequence, why have the check?
Plus it becomes a risky gamble and a fun game.
You don't even need to always use a 6d. A larger die could offer a range of bad out comes
A stamina system requires the dm to plan a session around the number of actions ect.
If you're a DM it's a labor of love and last minute plans
3/3
Alternatively only allow someone to attempt it if they have a tool or proficiency
It limits players agency, and stop them making decisions.
The whole TTRPG thing is based on fucking around and finding out, if you have trouble in determine what "finding out" is, you have to work on that part, not limit players.
It was VERY frustating, you stop yourself from doing things.
You want to be better at establish consequence, so maybe just invest in that.
Off the top of my head Salvage Union TTRPG has something similar to stamaina management throughout a mission.
I can definitely see myself being afraid to engage with practically any scenario because what if I waste my stamina on searching for something and failing or that thing isn't there and now my character is useless until we rest.
It rips me right out of my suspension of disbelief and slaps me in the face with the fact that I am playing a game with arbitrary limitations.
If you want to add stamina, It should be designed to disempower players, and make it only count for things that make sense (like doing physical tasks for prolonged periods of time, pushing actions, etc).