Antivaxxers bringing back measles is a reason to worry about way more than just measles - ThreadSky

astrokatie.com • 437 days ago

Antivaxxers bringing back measles is a reason to worry about way more than just measles

For decades, scientists couldn't figure out why the measles vaccine didn't just lower death rates from measles, but from other diseases too. Now we know it's because measles causes immune amnesia. Measles resets the immune system. It forgets how to fight every single pathogen it's ever encountered.

Comments

randomascii.bsky.social•437 days ago

This is such an important thing to understand. Some antivaxxers say they'd rather just keep their immune system healthy and fight infections "naturally", but measles throws a huge monkey wrench into this idea. Vaccinations are critical for your immune system.

evensong.bsky.social•400 days ago

There was some early data showing Covid had the same effect. Steals all the ID pictures in the immune system’s photo book.

mrl53.bsky.social•437 days ago

Lots to learn still.
“ the virus somehow.. “

mrl53.bsky.social•437 days ago

Quite a tale
“ Hi Betty listen just to let you know my kids have the measles”
“ So sorry Phyllis
Ok if I send my kids by just to get this over with?”

seannessy.bsky.social•436 days ago

antivaxxers will be a host for measles and act bewildered when friends and family don't want to associate with them anymore

honey this isn't just a political disagreement anymore i dont want the plague

juliaskott.bsky.social•437 days ago

I never got the whooping cough vaccine because it was deemed too low-quality for a few years? Got w.c, was sick for months, and thirty-five years later my whole airway apparatus is still crap.

broseman.bsky.social•437 days ago

There is a terrific podcast called This Week in Virology that has been my mainstay since this all started. They have a weekly episode regarding current studies and treatment of Covid-19 with Dr. Daniel Griffin, a leading infectious disease specialist who practices in NYC.

juliaskott.bsky.social•437 days ago

I listened to something the other week that was about how viruses spread and the evolution of virology - from 2019. It was a bizarre experience.

broseman.bsky.social•437 days ago

As a child I had scarlet fever, measles and mumps all

astrokatie.com•437 days ago

😞

hatspin.bsky.social•437 days ago

Covid looks like I has a similar effect. Lots of reactivated Epstein-Barr seen.

halibut.bsky.social•437 days ago

This pisses me off so much. My youngest had blood transfusions as a baby because of her heart defects. Live vaccines get delayed with transfusions, so we had to wait extra long to get her MMR. Obviously we kept her home, but there were still times we had to go out and travel (for treatment).

halibut.bsky.social•437 days ago

All babies are at risk. All of them. They think they are making decisions for their own kids, but they are really choosing for any baby. Raaaaaaaage.

the17thqueen.bsky.social•437 days ago

“But it’s my personal choice!” makes me want to shove my boot in their mouth 🤬

delightw2023.bsky.social•437 days ago

This is the thing, isn't it. It's bad enough parents don't protect their own children but they put other children at risk.

halibut.bsky.social•437 days ago

And some of those kids are at very serious risk of bad outcomes. When my little one was interstage in her heart surgeries, measles could have easily been devastating for us. And there have been exposures at our children’s hospital ER! Places you have to go to become unsafe.

delightw2023.bsky.social•437 days ago

It makes me so angry.

teresasm.bsky.social•437 days ago

Probably stupid comment: I wonder if the virus could be modified to make people who have allergies/intolerances not have those anymore?

dukedaking.bsky.social•437 days ago

Humanity is really, really screwed up these days.

colapommes250.bsky.social•437 days ago

It is best for the children to be vaccinated according to the vaccinator of the hospital and the whole family as well and not forgotten. All vaccinations must be refreshed every ten years.

https://www.onmeda.de/gesundheit/kind/galerie-kinderkrankheiten-id201998/#bild2

lucykemnitzer.bsky.social•437 days ago

What's wild is how people in general in my childhood (50s-60s) sort of downplayed measles & the rest as "childhood illnesses" & laughed about them even as vaccines were first appearing for them.
Looking back, I wonder if it was gallows humor & I was too young to understand.

rds773.bsky.social•437 days ago

Given the sort of horrific crap my generation (GenX) was supposed to shrug off as kids, I suspect it’s both gallows humor and also a cultural indifference to the well-being of children.

samaron.bsky.social•437 days ago

It's unbelievable that this evidence will be ignored and actively rubbished by a select group of people

billblume.bsky.social•437 days ago

That is horrifying.

debgoldendc.bsky.social•437 days ago

Fuuuuuck

teajunkie.bsky.social•437 days ago

As an aside, I wonder what impact measles has on autoimmune diseases?

darrensimmons.bsky.social•437 days ago

Oh.

Great.

proeiszeitdeaf.bsky.social•433 days ago

In Switzerland and Germany, there are «Measels parties», where deluded parents would bring their children voluntarily into an infected household!

trickcyclist.bsky.social•435 days ago

One of the biggest threats to the human race is ignorance.

arthurzqx.bsky.social•437 days ago

People seeing the re-emergence of measles and concluding that the vaccines never worked is yet another reason to worry.

emerald0013.bsky.social•437 days ago

I should probably check when the last time I got a MMR booster...

rahaeli.bsky.social•433 days ago

There's a blood test they can do to check your immunity! Some insurance won't cover it, so doctors may just give you a booster instead. People born before 1980 may not have gotten the second dose (it was added late) so one adult booster is often a good idea.

notsubtlecritic.bsky.social•437 days ago

Very frightening thank you for posting. It’s almost like the dark ages are coming back despite advances in science.

kris-nawrocki.bsky.social•437 days ago

I got chickenpox twice. Sounds amazing, but browsing through my health records I can now see I first got afflicted with chickenpox, and then - later - with measles. 10 years later: again chickenpox.

cedar.bsky.social•437 days ago

I also got chickenpox twice! Everyone looks at me like I'm crazy when I say that. Glad to know I'm not alone 😅

lyndamr.bsky.social•437 days ago

I got chickenpox twice too but without the measles in between. I just had a first case too mild to give full immunity. Parents let me keep poxy brother company thinking I’d be safe. Surprise!

cedar.bsky.social•437 days ago

EXACT SAME

astrokatie.com•437 days ago

Someone else was just sharing the same story!

jengingras.bsky.social•437 days ago

The girl in my school who had chicken pox twice was *famous* for it. (Small town.)

anniebellet.bsky.social•437 days ago

I had chicken pox three times without getting measles (was vaxed) at 2 mo, 8 years, and 11 years old respectively

kevinrsours.bsky.social•437 days ago

Chicken pox immunity fades with time. Before the vaccine was widespread most people encountered the virus on the regular which refreshes the immunity

marijocook.bsky.social•437 days ago

Someone should make a documentary about the enthusiastic reception of each new vaccine in the 60s. Everyone in my parents' generation--who had lived in the pre-vaccine world-- was in a big hurry to get all of us children vaccinated absolutly as soon as possible. 1/2

marijocook.bsky.social•437 days ago

I got vaccinated at a school after hours (polio), at a school during school hours (Rubella), and at the public health dept, as well as at my regular doctor's office. We literally stood in lines for vaccines.

wildbore101.bsky.social•437 days ago

The history of measles: A scourge for centuries
https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-na-measles-timeline-20150205-story.html

wildbore101.bsky.social•437 days ago

News note on measles outbreaks across the Pacific Islands
https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/news-note-measles-outbreaks-across-pacific-islands

hailthefatkid.bsky.social•437 days ago

I hate this timeline.

matbennett.com•437 days ago

Fascinating, but scary

maytagsmom.bsky.social•437 days ago

🤦🏽‍♀️ Oh jeez.

michellernretired.bsky.social•437 days ago

This is a fascinating article. Not a scientist, but the similarities of increased vulnerability to other pathogens after being infected with either measles or COVID 19 rings alarm bells in this old brain.
Thanks so much for sharing this article. Wow.

astrokatie.com•437 days ago

“Examination of child mortality rates in the US, UK, and Denmark in the decades before and after the introduction of the measles vaccine revealed that nearly half of all childhood deaths from infectious disease could be related to MV [measles] infection when the disease was prevalent.”

damemyniah.bsky.social•437 days ago

When I was in university our soil science professor told us to remember that a particular soil “looks like it has measles” over & over. Finally I got the courage to tell him none of us knew what measles looked like. How things have changed.

schokomint.bsky.social•437 days ago

Vaccines did, still do. We depend on it.

damemyniah.bsky.social•437 days ago

They only work if people take them, that’s the problem

mystoragebench.bsky.social•400 days ago

What does measles look like in soil? What's the potential effect of encountering the virus that way?

damemyniah.bsky.social•400 days ago

He meant that the soil profile is mottled, it has red spots, like a human with measles does.

mystoragebench.bsky.social•400 days ago

Ohh, I totally misread that

mystoragebench.bsky.social•400 days ago

So could other vaccines be creating lesser understood positives by the things they eradicate?

otzenpunk.bsky.social•437 days ago

More deseases, more illness with kids - good for Big Pharma. Perhaps the antivax movement is in fact a project by the pharma industry, or at least secretly backed by them?💡

ctrombley1.bsky.social•437 days ago

The first prominent modern anti-vaxxer, Andrew Wakefield, was actually taking money from a class action lawyer who hoped to sue Big Pharma and it snowballed from there

saddestrobots.bsky.social•437 days ago

a series of compounding crises that leave people feeling like death and disease are simply unavoidable is worse for pharmaceutical companies than an atmosphere of "science can help you! you want the latest and greatest!"

fava.bsky.social•437 days ago

Pharma does not want people distrusting science and medicine. We sell science and medicine!

tomlevenson.bsky.social•437 days ago

Also, for the most part, vaccine-preventable diseases are not profit centers. You either die or get better fairly quickly.* Drugs make money in their dance with chronic or long-time-frame illnesses, and as big-ticket treatments that can cure otherwise incurable diseases.

That's not measles.

tomlevenson.bsky.social•437 days ago

*Yes: long COVID...infectious diseases can have a very long tail indeed. (See, e.g., polio.) But across the pathogen landscape there's more money in conditions that require maintenance via drugs.

astrokatie.com•437 days ago

Even long covid clearly isn’t a cash source for big pharma, since as far as I can tell there are no accepted treatments for it and the research is vastly underfunded

mrl53.bsky.social•437 days ago

I read a paper.
If you as a practitioner do not acknowledge the patients concerns of LC it can cause other problems.
They cited Lyme Disease.
Many were ignored.
Mental problems cause physical problems.

najapallida.bsky.social•436 days ago

As usual, they're probably waiting for publicly funded research sources to come up with viable treatment options, so they can swoop in to run the last stage of trials and patent them.

lfv-rhetrx.bsky.social•437 days ago

True; it’s hard for something to be a potential money-maker for pharma when we’re not even sure what the target should be (and even in diseases where a target seems obvious, no guarantees of success)

dampscot.bsky.social•436 days ago

If it is anything like ME/CFS, the only cash cows are quack cure grifters and consultants telling health insurers that they are faking it :(

jenebbeler.bsky.social•437 days ago

Even making monoclonal antibodies for the immunocompromised and older people isn’t profitable enough (especially when the dominant variant changes rapidly). There’s an XBB one in trials.

tomlevenson.bsky.social•437 days ago

Absolutely. Just a completeness post to forestall someone saying "not all infectious diseases" are quick.

lovesdaryl.bsky.social•437 days ago

Yeah, because people in pharma and their families wouldn’t be just as f*cked by this as everyone else. 🙄

astrokatie.com•437 days ago

I don’t think so. I think it’s a bunch of political and wellness grifters, with some eugenicist ideas mixed in

christopheleroy.bsky.social•437 days ago

As usual, the more convoluted the more believable

blopeep.bsky.social•437 days ago

hate to say, but I think you're right. "malingering" isn't good for Big Pharma (TBC, I do NOT think Long COVID is fake in any way) and Big Insurance doesn't want to actually treat anyone.

hmstiller.bsky.social•437 days ago

I mean, who WOULDN'T want to think that actually you don't have to undergo temporary pain and/or side effects to be healthy? It's a tempting idea! It also happens to be wrong.

otzenpunk.bsky.social•437 days ago

Yes. I just like the idea to counter a conspiracy theory with another one that directly states the opposite. Brings back the fun, when you're forced to argue with one of those people. Occasionally one might even get irritated enough to be able to reboot his brain and start thinking again.

natanael.bsky.social•437 days ago

Also authoritarian types who want to discredit literally any type of source of truth who is not them

brianna.bsky.social•437 days ago

Don’t forget anti-government types who are opposed to any mandates to protect public health

xanindigo.bsky.social•437 days ago

On a related note, covid can reportedly damage our immune systems.

jwbuchanan.bsky.social•437 days ago

Mine is messed up enough.

valkyrieladyk.bsky.social•437 days ago

It very much can.

astrokatie.com•437 days ago

Severe covid can for sure but I’ve read lots of mixed/inconclusive things about how likely any kind of meaningful damage might be for most non-severe infections.

valkyrieladyk.bsky.social•437 days ago

I mean I have a biochem background and follow a ton of scientists and every scientist I know has been screaming about the immune damage for three years now.

Have you not noticed how many infections are *rampant* right now?

bexone.bsky.social•437 days ago

Hard to separate out the effects of covid on people’s immune systems from the effects of covid on people’s “fuck you for trying to tell me what to do I’m going to go out and about while sick enough that before covid I would have stayed home” systems, if you get me

jucifer.bsky.social•437 days ago

here's a couple of articles ppl can look at wrt both of these topics (both lay-friendly):

1/2

https://whn.global/covid-19-and-immune-dysregulation-a-summary-and-resource/

jucifer.bsky.social•437 days ago

2/2

https://www.thegauntlet.news/p/how-the-press-manufactured-consent?utm_campaign=post

jucifer.bsky.social•437 days ago

this one's good too

https://libguides.mskcc.org/CovidImpacts/Immune

daughterofmercury.bsky.social•436 days ago

Not to mention the likelihood of a severe infection if you keep getting it over and over

valkyrieladyk.bsky.social•437 days ago

The idea that if you don't have a "severe" case during the acute stage that you don't need to worry about long-term effects was *never* based on actual science.

It was just one of many bullshit talking points they trotted out to justify a lack of pandemic protections.

lookingglass.bsky.social•437 days ago

My eldest had covid pre vaccines, average response, nothing considered strong

Her sense of taste/smell is still effected, that's long-term brain damage

hestiah.wtf•437 days ago

My husband is in the same boat! March 2020 infection and he still can’t smell things unless it’s really strong.

xanindigo.bsky.social•437 days ago

It's upsetting how often I've heard stories like this.

kavey.bsky.social•437 days ago

On anecdotal evidence, there are many many of us who had mild Covid symptoms at the time but have struggled with many infections and poor physical health ever since. Long Covid isn't just affecting only those who got really ill with Covid.

astrokatie.com•437 days ago

I’ve seen a lot of scientists saying a lot of different things! I don’t think there’s no reason to worry, but I do think there’s a lot we still don’t know. I tend toward the precautionary principle myself so I won’t assume it’s benign but I’m also not sure we understand all the effects that well.

broseman.bsky.social•437 days ago

One of the most comprehensive studies recently published used veterans affairs data and showed that there was an increase of 8/hundred additional deaths in the 18 months following a Covid infection as opposed to the flu. Long term effects are real and substantial.

daveanthony.bsky.social•437 days ago

Yeah, it’s manufactured consent. We see a lot of scientists in the usual media telling us it’s fine. And many no one listens to are screaming. You know, the usual.

jucifer.bsky.social•437 days ago

respectfully, the way you frame this as q= enticing ppl to err on side of less caution.

as you well know, w/any science there's ofc multiple views +those who question others' conclusions.

however, i will go so far as to say the idea only severe c19 has been linked to immune impact, simply=untrue

xanindigo.bsky.social•437 days ago

Either way, I think precautions are wise. Best not to gamble when phrases like "long term health impacts" are involved.

klogoldman.bsky.social•436 days ago

Infection for me was not a big deal but the 9 months of acute symptoms afterwards was hell. 4 years later I'm still not the same as I was before. I had a preexisting autoimmune disorder but even if didn't I wouldn't risk this outcome if it could have been avoided.

boococp.bsky.social•433 days ago

Yes, but the politicians don't want to know, because addressing the issue is difficult and expensive and stuffing your fingers in your ears, covering your eyes and flinging a dead cat in the road for people to look at is such a nice easy solution and it doesn't effect your cronies' revenue streams.

thedenial.bsky.social•437 days ago

After four years of avoiding covid it made it into my home, my symptoms were very mild and now I've long covid, also waiting on a heart CT. I chalk this up to UK government giving up on universal boosters.

xanindigo.bsky.social•437 days ago

True, there's not enough information to say with certainty. It's not inconceivable it might follow the same pattern as long covid, where it's more likely with severe infections but mild or asymptomatic cases aren't necessarily safe, but that's just speculation.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/conditions/long-covid-post-covid-conditions-pcc

astrokatie.com•437 days ago

Yeah. I really wish we had a better understanding of all of this. Right now it seems like it’s impossible for anyone to meaningfully determine the risk they’re incurring by becoming infected because we don’t understand why it affects people so differently or what it might do to us all long-term ☹️

xanindigo.bsky.social•437 days ago

It's all very frustrating. It seems like the lion's share of the research went into getting people to go back to work and start buying things again while there are still gaping holes in our understanding of all this.

stevewfolds.bsky.social•437 days ago

I was once a school dishwasher w/measles in 1964. Isolated 2-days, the 3rd day everyone had it. People ask me why I mask now.

mimesatwork.bsky.social•437 days ago

Every time I learn about some disease, it's always "You thought the symptoms they list on the Symptoms To Look Out For list was what the disease does? Oh sweet summer child. That's just the external symptoms. Internally it wreaks an entirely different kind of havoc!"

henryhill1.bsky.social•437 days ago

I'm a Tween; between Senior and everybody else. I'd get whatever vax to be safe, but I'm 2 years from qualifying in many respects. Long Covid took my doctor out to early retirement, age retirement took the other one, and the whole office is now young and green. Complicated times to be on my own.

notapreppie.bsky.social•437 days ago

According to my mom, as a kid, I managed to get chicken pox twice because I managed to somehow get measles in between.

This was the early 80's so not sure if I unvaxxed or if I just got unlucky and the virus got past the vaccine protection.

also had shingles at 23, but that was due to work stress

caffeineislife.bsky.social•437 days ago

That would be because Measles virus can produce an effect known as Immune Amnesia... This is where it can disrupt the immune system's memory cells of previous infection either temporarily or permanently. The Varicella vaccine was not approved for most nations, prior to mid 90s.

caffeineislife.bsky.social•437 days ago

You sound as though you're close in age to me... I was a 70s kid and contracted CPox by age 12, a good 10+ years before the vaccine was available here. BUT, anyone 50+ can now get the Shingrix vaccine, and i'd highly recommend that. 🙂

astrokatie.com•437 days ago

That’s what the whole discussion is about

caffeineislife.bsky.social•437 days ago

Ya, except that first post didn't load. The article also only links to the 2012 paper... There was some additional knowledge in the following years which ended up in the 2019 paper with Mina. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aay6485

henryhill1.bsky.social•437 days ago

OK, wait, I've seen the original post of Immunity Amnesia, but I thought the danger was in it destroying acquired resistance to Covid, flu, etc, deathly illnesses. I'm a 70's kid, don't remember ever getting pox or measles, but recently got Shingrix. Does IA negate ALL vaxes?

astrokatie.com•437 days ago

I’m not sure of the details but I think it essentially makes your immune system forget all its immunities (either from infection or vaccination)

titus.idyll.org•437 days ago

this looks legit: https://asm.org/articles/2019/may/measles-and-immune-amnesia

jkunkee.daskunkee.net•437 days ago

My understanding: Measles preferentially infects and kills a type of immune cell that is central to long term immune memory. When it gets them all, you get the immune amnesia effect. The immune system is large and complex, though, so other (short term) memories aren't wiped out.

henryhill1.bsky.social•437 days ago

It's a really confusing issue in a wandering article. I thought Rubella vax was different than 'measles'. I got the normal immunizations before I started school, got the 'gun' Rubella in about '68, and a whole bunch of stuff when I taught public school for a year about '98. Shingrix '23.

chimeracoder.bsky.social•437 days ago

Varicella Zoster wasn't approved in the US for general use until 1995 so it's unlikely you received the vaccine before then. I think earliest it was approved anywhere was 1988.

But yes measles resets your immune system so it probably reset your immunity to chicken pox, leaving you vulnerable again.

caffeineislife.bsky.social•437 days ago

Ya the late 80s was only Japan and Korea. It took awhile longer for other countries to approve it.

astrokatie.com•437 days ago

All of that sounds immensely unpleasant ☹️

puppyfoot.bsky.social•437 days ago

That is a potentially surprising number of major infectious diseases, depending on where you were living.

It is possible to get your titers checked after vaccination, to see if your body responded appropriately.

puppyfoot.bsky.social•437 days ago

(Measles-induced IA notwithstanding!)

notapreppie.bsky.social•436 days ago

It was Souther California, so... 🤷🏻‍♂️

Comments

Posting Rules

Reply