I've some JavaScript this evening and the whole mutability thing just bit me really badly. Rust has me making assumptions that are NOT true in this world - ThreadSky

ellie.wtf • 72 days ago

I've some JavaScript this evening and the whole mutability thing just bit me really badly.

Rust has me making assumptions that are NOT true in this world

Comments

mark.tomlin.tech•71 days ago

Rust has absolutely ruined me for other languages. I'm a native PHP dev, and when I go back to PHP from Rust the whole world seems backwards. PHP is not a bad language these days, taking things like `match`. But there are so many foot guns if you expect it to work like Rust.

anka213.bsky.social•71 days ago

may favorite php footgun that bit me in production is references:

$a = array('a', 'b', 'c', 'd');

foreach ($a as &$v) { }
foreach ($a as $v) { }

print_r($a);
?>

which of course outputs

Array
(
[0] => a
[1] => b
[2] => c
[3] => c
)

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4969243/strange-behavior-of-foreach-when-using-reference-foreach-a-as-v

swallez.com•71 days ago

In the same vein, coming from Java/Scala, during my first weeks learning Rust I felt dirty when I wrote 'mut', as it's frowned upon in these languages. Until it clicked that the compiler had my back and prevented me from shooting myself in the foot ☺️

predr.ag•72 days ago

A few months ago, I had to review some Python code and was astounded at the number of bugs I found that would have been compile errors in Rust.

At first I even missed several of them because I had gotten used to not having to look for such issues — rustc had me spoiled that way!

uggla88.bsky.social•71 days ago

Absolutely! Rust's type system helps avoid many of the tests you would need to write in Python. Nowadays, Python does support optional type annotations, which is a good improvement. However, I prefer Rust, where typing is mandatory.

sunshowers.io•71 days ago

Gradual typing is a neat way to transition over existing projects, but I don't think it is the right end state. I think accessing dynamic typing should be possible to do (Rust enables it in a few different ways—dyn traits, Any, macros) but not feel easy

sunshowers.io•71 days ago

For example, the write! macro uses dynamic typing. I think that's a good, judicious use of dynamic types

predr.ag•71 days ago

I think the right end state is a function of the intended use case.

I want my infra, cryptography, OS etc. to be Rust, strongly typed, etc.

But notebook-level experiments in Python are nice. I can worry about types (static or gradual) when I have the thing working.

sunshowers.io•71 days ago

Oh yeah, I generally mean for "software engineering": large-scale projects developed over many years

ellie.wtf•72 days ago

I’m not surprised! It’s wild that i can pass something to a function and it might be implicitly mutated 😱

sunshowers.io•71 days ago

The fact that this can happen many levels down the stack, as part of a dependency update, and is not considered a statically verifiable API breakage, is shocking. Makes it so much harder to scale up local reasoning

sunshowers.io•71 days ago

This is a big reason the Rust dependency ecosystem is so healthy. We all buy into a clear separation between mutable and immutable worlds, so we all benefit from it

predr.ag•72 days ago

Even including default values of function arguments! 😳

ellie.wtf•72 days ago

Ahhh the classic python gotcha

predr.ag•72 days ago

Classic, yet every year I hear of someone just learning about it the hard way, in prod 🫣

mark.tomlin.tech•71 days ago

It's learning about bugs in prod that makes me wish there was a PRP: Personal Rust Page. PHP but with Rust rules. But at the end of the day, I should just write the next version of my site in rust so I don't keep finding bugs in prod. I've been `tail -f` the error log to catch them.

neight-bit.bsky.social•72 days ago

*Raises hand nervously*

ellie.wtf•72 days ago

‪“I’ve some”‬

‪Yeah one of those nights‬

moppius.bsky.social•71 days ago

accidentally a whole JavaScript

govcraft.ai•71 days ago

Yes, Rust has spoiled me.

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