This is also part of why the PhD is being devalued as a degree. More women than men get PhDs now. - ThreadSky

khandozo.bsky.social • 67 days ago

This is also part of why the PhD is being devalued as a degree. More women than men get PhDs now.

Reposted from Cyd Harrell

great article about the devaluation of absolutely anything where women achieve 50%. which is a thing.

Comments

elinwaring.bsky.social•67 days ago

Actually also the value of a BA.

jkv1979.bsky.social•66 days ago

Unless of course it’s in finance and you’re a finance bro

gingerzilla.bsky.social•66 days ago

I glad to see someone online say this because as a guy that recently got his PhD I can definitely feel that people don't respect it.
The conversation always goes
"I have a PhD"
"ah, a PhD well anyone these day can get one of *THOSE* these days. Is it one of the *GOOD* ones?"

gingerzilla.bsky.social•66 days ago

When you ask what they mean by that the conversation always devolves towards them listing shit they read in some right wing rag about *light* degrees.
It is all about devaluing the words of people that are educated (experts) so they hold less weight when discussing political issues in public arenas.

brewergnome.bsky.social•66 days ago

It’s been wild (horrible) to watch happen in real time.

twidget.wtf•66 days ago

Conduct a decades long campaign to convince easily impressionable “men” that higher education isn’t valuable.

Women dominate higher education.

Higher education is ruined because women dominate.

/As a MK I dude, I’m rather pleased at this outcome.

mcbridetd.bsky.social•67 days ago

What evidence is there that PhD degrees are being "devalued"?

v0rvya.bsky.social•67 days ago

The loss of academic jobs overall, and the growing proportions of PhD holders who are overqualified for the jobs they end up holding.

Partly this is a consequence of population growth/ pool growth, partly tho it’s a systemic devaluing + defunding of higher education.

mcbridetd.bsky.social•67 days ago

Well first lets start with data. Again I keep asking for data that there's been a loss of PhDs hired.
But what you say may get at the issue--is it really "devaluing" PhDs, or is it market forces? We are seeing a drop in enrollments nationwide. We should expect drops in faculty when that happens.

khandozo.bsky.social•67 days ago

Adjunctification? It’s not a singular causal effect, but I think it would be wrong to assume that the field resists trends historically seen in almost every field in which women have become a majority.

mcbridetd.bsky.social•67 days ago

I was expecting evidence or data?

khandozo.bsky.social•67 days ago

Okay. It’s pretty easy to find (data on both devaluation and increase in women) but I was just casually chatting with my people on here and did not expect a lot of folks to see it outside my circle.

mcbridetd.bsky.social•66 days ago

OK thanks. If easy to find-would like to see it; seriously want to know. I also KNOW in some fields women are devalued; observed it. However, I also know that in fields I am currently am in women dominate (70-80%+) and are valued. But drop in positions may be due to other factors(e.g. demographics)

rsmsflschr.bsky.social•66 days ago

We who have PhD's are quite able to look that up for ourselves if we seriously want to know, right?

Also, value is a relative concept. So saying that women PhD's "are valued" in today's academia doesn't mean much if this value is not compared to the historical value of a PhD in the same discipline.

gritsmcbarkin.bsky.social•66 days ago

Did you know that some D-bags will even refuse to look up things they’re curious about, and will basically try to make some woman do it, as if she were his secretary?

bluewolfspirit.bsky.social•66 days ago

Looks to me like he just proved your point. You commented on someone else's post and therefore you OWN the research and are expected to defend the original post. Certainly, HIS learned experience doesn't bear it out therefore "not true." Yes, men don't experience misogyny.

boazhsan.bsky.social•67 days ago

Another example/aspect of anti-intellectualism
https://bsky.app/profile/drskyskull.bsky.social/post/3lep7dufiyk24

prunesqualler.bsky.social•66 days ago

I had a long fight/conversation with NPR (Ari Shapiro and their standards editor) about why they choose not to use “Dr.” for people with PhDs. Their reasons were inconsistent and illogical but they held firm. A simple change like that could go a long way.

khandozo.bsky.social•66 days ago

This is true of a lot of publications and I've noticed that it's often inconsistently applied even when there are standards. Sometimes within a single piece, you'll see a male professor referred to as Prof. or Dr. while the female professor is titleless. I haven't kept track, but I have noticed.

comradedogboy.bsky.social•66 days ago

My partner is known by our friends as The Doc, because 1. She’s got a PhD in organic chem; 2. She’s waaaay smarter than everyone else in the room, put together. No one doubts her abilities. No one devalues her BSc, Honours and Doctorate. Or she’ll destroy them. In public.

drcaroljasper.bsky.social•66 days ago

And this is grand in person. Online it’s a whole other ball game. I am regularly told I don’t deserve my title, my qualifications are worthless, and I’m a joke. Best part - not one of them would tackle me in real life. Not one.

Misogyny lurks behind anonymity and distance.

comradedogboy.bsky.social•66 days ago

Sadly indeed. Use some preemptive retaliation in. Stay strong #Solidarity mate. ✊🏻

drcaroljasper.bsky.social•66 days ago

See my bio! It takes more than some fragile male egos to bring me down 😀

jkv1979.bsky.social•66 days ago

I wonder if the perception would be the same if her degree wasn’t in a male-dominated field.

comradedogboy.bsky.social•66 days ago

Maybe ask her, but do it from a distance, if you value your teeth.

jkv1979.bsky.social•66 days ago

LOL, don’t come at me! I work in higher ed and value all degrees! I was just making an observation that her degree was not on the list of female dominated fields. I’m particularly interested in this as my school is 60-40 women-men. Our nursing and education programs continue to grow.

marijocook.bsky.social•66 days ago

Men began to re-enter nursing in the 1980s, after it had been a female-only profession for decades, and soon after their pay began to increase.

gritsmcbarkin.bsky.social•66 days ago

My dad was a “male nurse” 40 years ago, and whenever he started a new job as a floor nurse, he would almost immediately be promoted to building supervisor. He said he could easily have become director of nursing if he were willing to work the day shift.

mframos.bsky.social•66 days ago

Not sure about the “biology is the easiest STEM” bit. I don’t think people actually say/think that. That said, this looks like a cool causal inference topic.

glennf.com•67 days ago

This distinctly reminds me of the march into ignorance described in a Kornbluth sci-fi story (without its eugenics element).

khandozo.bsky.social•67 days ago

I keep thinking about how my PhD designated emphasis in feminist theory has provided me with a clearer view of the specific way in which I fucked myself over.

glennf.com•67 days ago

I still think the arc of history is long. Just how long, I don’t know.

aalaneuk.bsky.social•66 days ago

This reminds me of the criticism about Jill Biden - she ‘only’ has a PhD and isn’t a ‘real’ (medical) doctor, so she’s a fraud for using the title.

I cannot begin to list the ways the accusation doesn’t make sense.

patboi.bsky.social•66 days ago

She doesn't have a PhD. Also, most PhDs I know do not use the title outside of academic settings.

billbeaird.bsky.social•66 days ago

Curmudgeon much? Somehow I doubt that you know many PhDs.

patboi.bsky.social•66 days ago

I’d say I know more than most. My coworkers and I all have PhDs.

lizanotlisa.bsky.social•66 days ago

It’s an EdD, which is still a doctoral degree that grants her the right to use the title.

aalaneuk.bsky.social•66 days ago

I do apologise to her, it’s a doctorate in education. My mistake.

Yours,

Dr Alexander Lane, who can use the title whenever he likes because he has the right.

thesiswhisperer.bsky.social•67 days ago

At a party years ago, a male friend once said to a mutual: "well, if Inger can get a PhD, it must be easy". The logic of misogyny.

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