Also as many people have pointed out you literally cannot have a health insurance system without many customers who pay premiums and do not use the services. These people aren’t irrelevant, they are fundamental to the whole thing - ThreadSky

whstancil.bsky.social • 82 days ago

Also as many people have pointed out you literally cannot have a health insurance system without many customers who pay premiums and do not use the services. These people aren’t irrelevant, they are fundamental to the whole thing

Reposted from grimm 🙈🙉🙊

"convinced them they are bad" here means surveying the only people who need insurance. People just paying premiums not using services are definitionally not important to any health system. Surveying mostly healthy people is not useful lol.

Comments

spincast-ag300.bsky.social•82 days ago

johnbalash.bsky.social•82 days ago

This is a microcosm of one of the biggest problems in America. We the people forget that we the people hold a fuck ton of power and influence. There’s a reason the management and corporations bust unions.

thimbles.bsky.social•82 days ago

Aw, Christ Will. everything in this discussion is getting screwed up because you folks are not getting the basics of healthcare economics. Just as there are parts to an egg that are distinct until you turn them into omelette mix, so is this discussion on healthcare is turning into omelette.

thimbles.bsky.social•82 days ago

The healthcare market is comprised of three things: the healthcare userbase, the healthcare suppliers, and the healthcare financiers. Why do we need financiers? Because healthcare among the general userbase should be limited and rare, but the cost of healthcare is expensive.

thimbles.bsky.social•82 days ago

This means that, without financing, you'd have intermittent healthcare expenses on individuals incurring costs beyond the individual's ability to pay for them. This would mean the individual would be forced to forgo care and die or the provider would provide care without the ability to collect.

thimbles.bsky.social•82 days ago

The financier acts to socialize healthcare expenses from a population of many - who likely won't use healthcare, but will pay a premium to protect from the risk of incurring an health requiring episode - to pay for the expenses of few.

thimbles.bsky.social•82 days ago

So you get that? The healthy population's contributions pay for the sickly's utilization. The healthy do not utilize much healthcare services and do not incur much fees from such. Financing exists to provide the funding for care to the providers and protect users of the care from the costs.

thimbles.bsky.social•82 days ago

This is VERY SIMPLE. You see it in most countries in some form or another. It is the reason why if the US wants to save medicare and medicaid, it should not cut coverage or charge more.
It should SPREAD coverage to healthy/younger populations.

bluegeorgist.bsky.social•82 days ago

Healthcare usage is not balanced throughout the population, nor should it be.

bluegeorgist.bsky.social•82 days ago

While we are here, always remember income distribution for all Americans

liquidnougat.bsky.social•82 days ago

What if we just did away with health insurance entirely and instead just gave everyone health care for free

daranglenn.bsky.social•82 days ago

The supply of healthcare providers will decline exponentially if you pay them zero dollars and then you will not get healthcare, not because of corporations but because of scarcity. If you pay enough, you will have healthcare but govt will decide coverage and some things will still be denied.

daranglenn.bsky.social•82 days ago

That is not an argument against or for any particular form of healthcare coverage. But the idea that you get a card and just go conveniently get all the healthcare you want without any denials at no cost if you have a government system is an unrealistic expectation.

daranglenn.bsky.social•82 days ago

And if you have a 100% government system (actually quite rare in the world) remember that Republicans will make those coverage decisions when they are in power and Americans don’t exactly punish them for bad domestic policy as we have seen.

wietse111.bsky.social•82 days ago

That's an option, an option I quite like, but we shouldn't ignore that that also comes with issues: taxes would need to increase. And we now need government agencies who decides who has the rights to which treatments. It's possible, but not easy or perfect.

ridder.bsky.social•82 days ago

From here it looks as if you're both purposely talking past each other. It's just getting stupider.

jeffreyblack.bsky.social•81 days ago

That’s what you have everyone pay pay w taxes. Idiot

skepitcaldoc.bsky.social•81 days ago

Correct. As constructed, premium payments are essentially a tax. We have to have many people paying in that don't cost the system to subsidize those who do. That's how insurance works. It's why term life insurance is so cheap. Basic.

jonmarke.bsky.social•82 days ago

They're fundamental to the insurance part, not the Healthcare part. (The easy conflation of these terms might low key be a big part of the problem! )

ealluia.bsky.social•81 days ago

You need risk pooling and denial of service no matter what system you have. Any argument that crudely goes "I pay into this system, so I should never be denied service I need..." is going to end up irate at any system. Medicare/MA also deny all kinds of theoretically necessary coverage.

jonmarke.bsky.social•81 days ago

Yes, but since they are all inevitably present in any such social safety net system, it's a little bit silly to suppose those are the parts of the "for profit insurance" schema that are objectionable, actually.

jonmarke.bsky.social•81 days ago

Social security, to pick an example, has quite clear limits and restrictions on the benefits it offers, and some obvious aspects of risk pooling, and nevertheless is not operated as a for profit finacialized serious of corporations.

It is traditionally an extremely popular program.

jonmarke.bsky.social•81 days ago

Even while the people participate in that system (paying in AND cashing out) have a clear set of complaints and grievances.

jonmarke.bsky.social•81 days ago

If we must be careful setting terms, then the argument should run "removal of an inefficient and monopolistic for-profit schema will free up limited resources overall, which users of the system can see direct benefits from, like more cash out, or less cash in."

ealluia.bsky.social•81 days ago

ID/DD services are mainly paid for with MA waivers. The coverage they provide is often at a level that leaves people in appalling living conditions. That's what the people have decided we're willing to pay. Does this mean private insurance is awesome? No. But arguments need to be more careful.

unheavenlycreature.bsky.social•82 days ago

you're SO close to the obvious conclusion but your neolib nature won't let you go all the way

whstancil.bsky.social•82 days ago

What is it, tell it to me

unheavenlycreature.bsky.social•82 days ago

maybe instead of a health insurance system we should provide healthcare to our citizens via tax revenue. Some kind of, I don't know... socialized medicine

jackisjake.bsky.social•82 days ago

That’s just also healthy people are paying for it. Instead of insurance agencies, you will get a government agency. Uber point is that people like their insurance and they hate when bit changes are made

davehunter.bsky.social•82 days ago

They like their insurance or they are anxious about change.

unheavenlycreature.bsky.social•82 days ago

why would anyone care if people "like their insurance" when they aren't using it for its sole purpose? It's supposed to exist to povide healthcare to Americans. Instead, it exists solely to enrich people who are already wealthy, at the expense of American lives.

jackisjake.bsky.social•82 days ago

Did you read this before you post? Because I don’t know what are you saying. Anyone care if people? People is like the whole thing of discourse here

alexbollinger.bsky.social•81 days ago

people are discussing how to build public support for a national health insurance system. Your solution can't just be "why not just build a national health insurance system?" like... ok, we want that, how do we get the votes for that?

unheavenlycreature.bsky.social•81 days ago

Last i checked public approval for universal healthcare is hovering around 70 percent. It's not a support problem, it's an "elites don't want to do it" problem

alexbollinger.bsky.social•81 days ago

Americans voted for the "Obamacare is socialism" guy like just a month ago.

I'm sure they do vaguely support universal health care but also they don't want to lose their current health insurance, because people contain multitudes.

fdqr.dev•81 days ago

Why do people keep voting for the elites who don't want to do it.

lonjil.xyz•82 days ago

What makes you think Will hasn't reached that conclusion? I'm pretty sure he supports Medicare for All.

jeffreyblack.bsky.social•81 days ago

“Pretty sure”

The fact you don’t know for sure is all you need to know about a guy who praises the 2019 economy that he was saying needed “big structural change” in 2019.

He’s completely disingenuous and incoherent

lonjil.xyz•81 days ago

Ah yes, me, some random person from Sweden, not knowing the exact details of Will Stancil's political positions, is proof that he sucks.

unheavenlycreature.bsky.social•82 days ago

I've been watching him do apologize for the industry the laat week

lenoxus.bsky.social•81 days ago

His point here is the same one as about the economy: surveys may show a majority of Americans believe X, but that majority is simply wrong. It's a huge mistake when progressives just assume the public is on their side and/or that the masses are tapped in to secret wisdom.

b00ster.bsky.social•82 days ago

I give it an hour max before someone’s posting how they should get their premium refunded if they don’t make a claim.

cortessis-peter.bsky.social•81 days ago

Same kinda people who rattle the cages of the cashier’s cage for a refund when they lose money at a casino.

bluegeorgist.bsky.social•82 days ago

💀

lenoxus.bsky.social•81 days ago

Also, under our crummy woke capitalist system, even people without kids are expected to pay the taxes that fund schools! They should get their money back!!

guachi.bsky.social•82 days ago

And these people also probably don't know that insurance companies already have to rebate premiums if they don't meet a minimum payout threshold overall.

gozarian.bsky.social•82 days ago

It's literally a risk pool! That's the entire function of insurance; every kind of insurance. Hell, that's the most basic function of government; all of society even! If we demand to live in a purely fee-for-service, pay-as-you-go world out of fear someone else gets a free ride, we're doomed.

uxorious-cosine.bsky.social•81 days ago

It’s gambling — you bet the company that you’ll get ill, they bet that you won’t

cduruk.bsky.social•82 days ago

That’s still missing the point a bit? Everyone knows how insurance works. But does it work as expected when you need the service you (or others) have been paying for?

kwcentralmn.bsky.social•82 days ago

A big chunk of the problem here is that most people have no idea how much it costs to provide the level of service they expect. So paying in $x may make them feel owed something very unrealistic.

bluegeorgist.bsky.social•82 days ago

That is a unique problem with healthcare. You don't know what you're signing up for, no one does.

So the services required to keep you alive could be way out of wack with what you pay into it.

cduruk.bsky.social•81 days ago

I think that’s what I’m getting at. If everyone’s surprised by the price when they get the bill, they were clearly underpaying beforehand. No wonder everyone’s happy with their insurance then?

bluegeorgist.bsky.social•81 days ago

The range of what could happen is also like 5 orders of magnitude different. Like you could have $0 expenses, or basically live in a hospital with a rare disease that's expensive to treat.

davidbloomberg.bsky.social•82 days ago

Not to mention that you never know when the person in the “don’t use it” category will suddenly flip into the “need it now” category!

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