This is taking it a bit too far; first of all, not all religions are Christianity, second not all religion exists as an external force pressed onto children; it can just as easily be a natural and traditional part of the social fabric of the culture that is embracing them
In fact, the relationship of post-colonial Christianity to the large majority of its believers is rather aberrant from a historical perspective, and while treating all religions is equal may be naive, treating them all as equal to that one specifically is borderline chauvinistic
Do you not see the harm of parents teaching do x because athority tells you to? There is also the ability to absolve responsibility to a higher authority.
How do you think so many people can just believe a trust me bro type statement. Conditioning by religion
Isn't it because if they do not identify as that religion early on than motivating them to identify as it when their older would be a more herculean task?
What you are describing applies to literally every form of early childhood conditioning, from language training, ethnic identification, gender role assignment (which raises a whole other can of worms, I think that is far more harmful than religious indoctrination could ever be), and so on
Smugly stating counterfactuals is a known tactic in debate, and one which would associate you with people with whom I suspect you do not wish to be associated. One such group of those people would be those who hold unexamined and chauvinistic religious beliefs
The two flavors in your second point are the same thing, the difference is that the latter is what happens after generations of the former allowing it to propagate.
Religion is not wielded harmfully by everybody who believes in one, but it is always wielded harmfully in aggregate.
Also, for what it may be worth, I'm not even really a Christian anymore, and I am a Marxist; so I'm hardly making this argument from a standpoint biased in any religion's favor.
I didn't make an empty claim, but you made an extremely broad and absolute one, and I don't think I'm out of line to ask for some kind of support even in a casual debate
...also, most people who know me would be shocked to hear you describe me as having an "optimistic disposition", even though strangely enough I agree that I do
Even with christianity, for most people it's just a structure that educates morality in a simplistic way. The church lends to a lot of abuse, but the religious practice isn't inherently fraught.
Is it? Have you been all over the world and observed how children of every ethnicity and tradition relate to their cultures and the religious beliefs associated with them?
I'm a Marxist buddy, I don't have anything you would recognize as a religious faith. But, being a Marxist, for one thing I recognize the existing of social traditions besides those of white English speaking people
I recognize it... and also recognize that when a religion makes an adult marry several 9yr olds... then probably it needs to go. Whether it's a tradition or religion it doesn't fucking matter
I wouldn't even necessarily reduce it that simply myself, but I think it's a more reasonable point than just universally condemning all religion without any investigation
Do your chores, follow traditions... pray... maybe if kids did these more often they'd know how to be good people, instead of letting the government raise your children
🤣 Again maybe pick up a book rather than taking 1 sentence as if that's really the only conversation they've ever had or will have. The parent is showing support to his child and he doesn't just say "do what you like". And also this you read is especially tied to the topic of religion
I said it once and I’ll say it to the day I die. “Don’t confuse your faith with your Religion.” Religion is man made, your faith is all you and no one else’s business. Ps. My Grandfather taught me that. lol
Religion brought about social cooperation & unified purpose, which has not been replicated. Since the “death of God” the world has oscillated from nihilism to extremes of ideology in an attempt to unify ppl. A cursory glance the 20th century shows us the attempt to replace God will cost us dearly.
The us vs them tendency is a feature of human psychology rooted story in which has caused the deaths of many throughout history. Weather it’s nationalism, communism, or any ism you can think of have all contributed to the historical death tole. But religion united people like no other ism.
The author of that post worded it in the worse way for a christian parent. We don't force our children to follow religion, we expose them to things we ourselves believe. That's called parenting my friend.
My family has a story that goes back 400 years ago in Cuba about how awful that religion is and why no one in the family should ever be in that facist religion
I say let the child ask questions and teach them right from wrong. If they end up in any religious view, make it a discussion and ask questions. Explore the beliefs in the religion. Don't blindly say all of it is evil.
Start the #resistance in your city, gather friends and family. Organize a march or a protest.
Remember to remain NON-VIOLENT.
Use your voice and your pen.
Teach the girls how to fight dirty. (YBMC)
Teach boys to respect/protect women.
There is no time to lose! Start NOW.
If you’re only going to church on Christmas, you probably aren’t teaching the actual lessons of Christ year round and are likely exactly who this cartoon is talking about.
1/4. Atheists are funny. They don't even realize that in their attempt to be contrarian, they've also formed their own little religion. To be "smart" about the topic, the best thing to do would be to claim agnosticism. Agnosticism implies some level of humility by admitting, you simply don't know...
2/4, ...which even science is predicated on. Because claiming to "know" anything eliminates all further inquiry into a subject by shutting down any questioning, discussion, or investigation on the topic. Ceasing even the potential of gaining new knowledge and insight. Atheists also struggle with...
3/4... arguing against religion and the concept God, using the two interchangeably. As if the concept of God is only accessible via an religious institution and vice versa. Maybe in reality the issue is not God or religion, but a limited understanding of those concepts. Which ironically...
4/4... puts them into the same camp as blind followers of any faith. Just from the opposite end of the spectrum. They too have stunted their own potential growth and maturity on the topic by choice. It's the equivalent of plugging your ears and singing over ideas you don't like.
Remember back in High School when all the unpopular kids rebelled against the popular kids by being counter cultural? All the while failing to realize they didn't do anything but form their own exclusive social clique. Claiming to be Atheist is like claiming Anarchist. It was cool once. Back in HS..
Absolutely. That's the more "intellectually sound" way to approach the question overall. People can have criticisms about religion(s) as institutions, and rightfully so. But on the concept of God... to claim know with absolute certainty one way or the other is asinine.
Absolutely! My grandparents were a little racist, my parents stopped that. I stopped following the "god" con job. Now my son is working on toxic masculinity with his two young boys. It can be done. Each generation gets a little better - if you make it so.
I waited on an older couple 70ish the other day.
They bought a tray of mini cupcakes from our bakery dept. The woman said she gets them every year and makes her grands celebrate Jesus's bday w/ the cupcakes.
All I could think is indoctrination. Sigh
My wife and I are Buddhists but we have never pushed any religion on our kids, I didn’t figure out what I believed until I was older, so I thought we should allow our children to do the same. They can decide what they want to follow or believe if they want to believe in anything at all.
Unfortunately "do what you want" and "be a good person" don't always overlap, and human nature is to do what they want and be shitty humans unless taught otherwise.
That I will agree with, but these days there a lot of movements that are just the same as religions without having that title, so one has to be careful.
Most holidays that people follow today have been taken from their original meaning and given new ones. Easter never had anything to do with Jesus, Halloween never had anything to do with the devil and Christmas was never Jesus birth.
🤣 You're misreading what I typed. All religions, since the beginning of prototype humans, are all about celebrating surviving another day as life was harsh & deadly. It's only since the imposition of the Abrahamic religions that we have religious wars. https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/360211076.htm
Your generalizing. Go research manifest destiny. It was used as a reason for genocide. Religion has been used to commit some of history's most gruesome acts. Even interracial marriage was seen as ungodly at a certain point.
😱 Those are the rules of all Abrahamic religions, none of them, without exception, are innocent. It's why Constitution/Bill of Rights are set up for religions for the individual, not for national laws, e.g., Here is what happens when religions impose on the state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_Laundries_in_Ireland
😍 https://media.benedictine.edu/how-parents-affected-2-celebrity-atheists Gervais' brother Bob asked “Why do you believe in God?”
His mom shouted, warningly, “Bob!”
“And I knew,” Gervais recounts, “I learned it through body language. She was hiding something from me & he was telling me the truth. It took me minutes to work it out.”
5 years ago I would have agreed, but gaia has since revealed herself to me and made me her champion (you can be her champion too if you live true to your morals and love the forest)
Bonus attributes from matron godess gaia: +5 music, beauty, and healing
Special ability: hivemind
I’m an atheist and we talk about religion in the classes I teach. I think that kids should know about religion because there are 6 billion believers on the planet.
It doesn’t take long for non-religious kids to put up their hands and say, “why would people believe this without proof?”
lol, and you complain about the very wealthy. It's generational. Knowledge and money are passed on.
The US suffers from snotty privileged kids growing into snotty privileged adults. Color is irrelevant. No rules, no boundaries, no respect.
I just go "Gods pretty cool" and continue being bi and loving my friends and family for who they are because Ma and Pa believed in raising me right with good morals.
Religion isn't bad. it's the people who throw in bad ideals in hopes of hurting others as a result.
Woah! Religion used to have a function! I’m cool with sun and moon gods to tell my ancestors when to plant and harvest. I’m definitely not okay with religion being weaponized to control
Tell your children about your beliefs, live your beliefs and if they see that your words and actions align and make a good life, your children may well follow your beliefs.
Where does this say fundamental? It says religion. The cartoon itself reeks of colonialism, as though only whites have religion and the only religion is Christianity.
far as I know, there are 3 religions that refer to their diety as God, with an upper case capital like that, and two of them don't use English to do it. So this is very clearly referring to christianity.
But even so, any religion that use the patterns of speech presented here *is* fundamentalist
Can a person simultaneously be a Good human and be bored? Simultaneously hate his job and support his community? Can they simultaneously support the community and hate its members?
Steve, when your core value is the Orange Lanter Oath, can you convince yourself it is ok to ask for help?
The "public school is indoctrination" don't see that taking them to church everyday is the same thing. We raised the kids without religion. They are really good kids and are doing amazing in school. If they decide to go to church in the future, it will be their choice and we won't stop them.
Wish there was a double like button. Live in the Bible belt and most of mine and my wife's family are heavily religious. Best I can hope is just talk to my kids about it when they get old enough to understand, cause there's no stopping our families from talking to them about it
The problem with saying do chores because I told you so is that you ultimately instill the reaction that you can do things that do not make sense to you because an authority figure told you so.
If religion wasn't always used as a lazy explanation to justify things, the lessons would be worth it
It is different. If children don’t build a tolerance for things they don’t enjoy when they’re young, it becomes more difficult for them to accept the need to do things they don’t enjoy later.
Most people don’t want to go to work each day, but unless they’re born rich, it’s part of survival.
Yes, that’s why one should assign age appropriate chores and not expect them to work a regular job like an adult. As rational non-extremists, we can recognize that there’s a middle ground between giving them adult level tasks and failing to give them any responsibilities.
Monstrous idea! But hear me out...
The Left uses Dobbs to ban Religious Indoctrination, because the Government has an interest in the health of its future economy.
Dobbs makes the Gov the Parent, that can violate any Right to make its choice.
I say we use the tool they created to destroy them.
Ok? Why exactly is Christian based morality inferior? What is it inferior to? Why is the other set of morality superior? There’s a lot of reasoning that is left out from this.
Comments
Do you not see the harm of parents teaching do x because athority tells you to? There is also the ability to absolve responsibility to a higher authority.
How do you think so many people can just believe a trust me bro type statement. Conditioning by religion
Religion is not wielded harmfully by everybody who believes in one, but it is always wielded harmfully in aggregate.
You made an empty claim, yourself, trying to twist this reflection board into a formal academic review is perverse.
This is not a debate of facts, it is a debate of optimistic vs. pessimistic disposition.
And also I wonder where does your convinction comes from, cause it doesn't come from education or even experience... sems to be coming from faith.
Traditions are important and chores are needed to teach kids value
Relifion is ok, so long as its not west baptist or JW
himself,
unless he can be Batman,
then I advise being Batman.
That’s the attitude that produces a bunch of spoiled hellions that never grow up.
I am an experienced former child!
I also was trained by 2 professional career parents.
You might not see the fruits of your labor for another 2 generations. Some aren't lucky enough to ever see it.
"A legacy is planting seeds in a garden you never get to see" -Alexander Hamilton
Remember to remain NON-VIOLENT.
Use your voice and your pen.
Teach the girls how to fight dirty. (YBMC)
Teach boys to respect/protect women.
There is no time to lose! Start NOW.
Actual child abuse is a real thing, wanting your kids to go to church on Christmas is not it.
2: Most sexual abuse happens in church. So you’re wrong and defending it!
If used poorly, you get poor results.
They bought a tray of mini cupcakes from our bakery dept. The woman said she gets them every year and makes her grands celebrate Jesus's bday w/ the cupcakes.
All I could think is indoctrination. Sigh
His mom shouted, warningly, “Bob!”
“And I knew,” Gervais recounts, “I learned it through body language. She was hiding something from me & he was telling me the truth. It took me minutes to work it out.”
I’m all for religious freedom but forcing it on a kid is abusive and wrong.
Bonus attributes from matron godess gaia: +5 music, beauty, and healing
Special ability: hivemind
It doesn’t take long for non-religious kids to put up their hands and say, “why would people believe this without proof?”
The US suffers from snotty privileged kids growing into snotty privileged adults. Color is irrelevant. No rules, no boundaries, no respect.
Religion isn't bad. it's the people who throw in bad ideals in hopes of hurting others as a result.
They threaten to kill or disown their kids for being trans
Leelah Alcorn was bullied viciously by her parents. She’s now dead and they continue to treat her like a boy.
She had so much life
So many trans kids are either murdered directly or indirectly
But even so, any religion that use the patterns of speech presented here *is* fundamentalist
That is you and your point done to you.
Sigh, see a message distort it so you can score easy points to statements no one made.
Steve, when your core value is the Orange Lanter Oath, can you convince yourself it is ok to ask for help?
If religion wasn't always used as a lazy explanation to justify things, the lessons would be worth it
You can explain to a child a chore and have them do it as early as 5 years old. They will even sometimes scold you for being lazy.
Most people don’t want to go to work each day, but unless they’re born rich, it’s part of survival.
The Left uses Dobbs to ban Religious Indoctrination, because the Government has an interest in the health of its future economy.
Dobbs makes the Gov the Parent, that can violate any Right to make its choice.
I say we use the tool they created to destroy them.