Clinton lost the primary to Obama in 2008 in part because her people *didn't have any idea how the primary system worked*. I don’t mean this as a knock on clinton, precisely, more making the point that you can ascend to the heights of the dem party while being completely incompetent - ThreadSky

eschatonblog.com • 2 days ago

Clinton lost the primary to Obama in 2008 in part because her people *didn't have any idea how the primary system worked*. I don’t mean this as a knock on clinton, precisely, more making the point that you can ascend to the heights of the dem party while being completely incompetent

Comments

drcarllouisyoung.bsky.social•2 days ago

She had wayyyy to many chefs in her kitchen and that was amazingly surprising given her proximity to someone who knew how to win, and had Ron Brown RIP with him who knew how to win and buy the time she figured that out it was too late..

m4a1960.bsky.social•2 days ago

Its all who will make the most money for rich donors wallstreet popularity etc. Time to end this its got us hiring bribed criminals now destroying our country over 50 yrs and counting !

beeverson.bsky.social•2 days ago

I will never forgive that sick fuck Clinton for the pied piper strategy

leoglickman.bsky.social•2 days ago

As an Obama and Sanders primary voter, that is dumb and not true. Out of desperation they were changing the metrics in 2008, bit they understood the delegate count game. They just got beat.

therealunclesam.bsky.social•2 days ago

I thought it was required so that the idiots who run, "Big Corporate," can manipulate them and keep them puppeted.

kmthurman.bsky.social•2 days ago

In fairness as someone in those rooms that is not entirely accurate. They knew they just believed it would not matter and refused to listen to anyone who believed that it would.

eschatonblog.com•2 days ago

Were reports about penn not accurate

kmthurman.bsky.social•2 days ago

The Ickes quote is accurate because Penn’s very dumb and used to say stuff like that all the time but early & big state the strategy was *in spite* everyone knowing that.

Penn’s insistence his strategy was mostly out of dedication to corruption & hubris. Same reason we didn’t build digital tools.

kmthurman.bsky.social•2 days ago

But the strategy was informed by a belief that Obama would drop out if he lost the early/big states even if he won some delegates which is just as dumb as not knowing the delegate system in my opinion.

greatfausto.bsky.social•2 days ago

Primaries have failed American voters… best to return to the old “smoke filled rooms” for candidate selection instead of a high school popularity contest..

michelecollins5411.bsky.social•2 days ago

I agree w/ you about her 08 team, but I still think she lost the left because she voted for the Iraq War. That was a no-go for a lot of people.

mad-as-a-hatter.bsky.social•2 days ago

Obama voted for the Iraq war, too. Mulitple times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDx4NZr2u4

michelecollins5411.bsky.social•2 days ago

https://www.factcheck.org/2016/09/obamas-war-stance-revisited/

mad-as-a-hatter.bsky.social•2 days ago

He spoke out against the war, but once he was in the Senate he kept voting for it. During his presidential candidacy, he had voted for the war multiple times.

michelecollins5411.bsky.social•2 days ago

funding the troops. Different.

mad-as-a-hatter.bsky.social•2 days ago

Somehow, the Obama campaign was able to convince people that voting for the Authoritzation for the Use of Force was "voting for the war," but voting for the funding to keep the war going was not.

ecomethius.bsky.social•2 days ago

This! It either demonstrated she lacked the good judgement to realize there was no causus belli, or she realized it but voted against her own good judgement for political reasons.

michelecollins5411.bsky.social•2 days ago

she always over-thought things.

cenzo21.bsky.social•2 days ago

Yes, and instead of democratic voters learning anything, we still bash politicians for things without using any context whatsoever. But at least we can hang our hats on everything Obama did, like enact nothing but republican policy and some executive orders immediately undone by trump.

lvwoody86.bsky.social•2 days ago

What we are experiencing in this country right now! Is total incompetence! 🤬

sevilleoz.bsky.social•2 days ago

I think Hillary herself was competent, I think the behind the scene traditional Dem political advisors that our candidates depend on are a disaster and totally out of touch as to how to run political campaigns in today's political environment. We need a new generation taking over and running things.

davepomes.bsky.social•2 days ago

Coincidentally the same reason why Sanders tanked his primaries...

In case a more recent example is helpful to readers.

d1puck1t.bsky.social•2 days ago

The DNC literally slashed debates and fiddled with the timetable to stop him from gaining steam. It's arguable how he would have fared otherwise, but the finger was pushing firmly on the scales to ensure a Clinton victory.

davepomes.bsky.social•1 day ago

Yes. We are in agreement that Sanders fundamentally misunderstood the rigged primary process, in a manner similar to Clinton losing to a relative nobody from Illinois. Causing him, like Clinton before him, to blow what he simplistically assumed would be a sure thing.

Thank you for your support 👍

joehill2.bsky.social•2 days ago

Chuck Schumer has entered the chat.

eschatonblog.com•2 days ago

Don't assume people know what they are doing. Suckup loyalists get promoted over people who know anything. Not always, but...

upine.bsky.social•2 days ago

Yes. Humans are hierarchical but Americans don't want to admit that. Those who s*ck up to the higher ups often rise the furthest in an organization, even if incompetent. Though more true of the GOP, it's also true of Dems, corporations, academia etc.

upine.bsky.social•2 days ago

Most Dem consultants are among the ppl who rise though incompetent.

https://upine.medium.com/democratic-politicians-get-terrible-advice-5a69081fed90

jenbren.bsky.social•2 days ago

This has become painfully obvious in recent times. Not just in politics but in the corporate world. A lot of those at the top do not have a clue what they're doing or how things work.

austingmackell.bsky.social•2 days ago

Thing is there is only a certain threshold of this suck-up incompetence the system can bear without collapse.

Not your point but I think we crossed it some time before anyone who currently works in media or politics was hired.

drmariamitchell.bsky.social•2 days ago

Or by being a mediocre white dude in the right place at the right time

rpcsas.bsky.social•2 days ago

https://youtube.com/shorts/rPIgpQEIPFo?si=GDbErHbqF8Q7o5ui

joeybee12.bsky.social•2 days ago

Nope. She realized later how important Iowa was and vowed to spend more time in 2016, which she did

falknergreaves.bsky.social•2 days ago

Why did you say nope and then agree with his statement?

joeybee12.bsky.social•2 days ago

I didn't agree...he made a blanket statement...she made a mistake with Iowa, but she clearly did not know what she as doing

starshark.bsky.social•2 days ago

Sorry, I don’t remember this. But I assume you aren’t making this up to get girls or something. Do you or anyone else have an article or a potted summary of what happened?

tcbullfrog.bsky.social•2 days ago

Do the girls like stories about failed democratic political consultants

Is that what's hot now

starshark.bsky.social•2 days ago

Don't ask me, I have no idea what the hell they want. Not what I've got, that's for sure.

timprice.bsky.social•2 days ago

Basically, Mark Penn, her campaign strategist turned right-wing Trump fan, had no idea the Democratic primaries awarded delegates proportionally, so she couldn’t win just by eking out majorities in large states https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/campaigns/presidential-campaigns/45434-mark-penn-thought-dem-primary-race-was-winner-take-all/

starshark.bsky.social•2 days ago

Oh. lmao

timprice.bsky.social•2 days ago

Yeah, it was a pretty big oversight, but in his defense, he had only been a top-level political strategist for like 15 years at that point

starshark.bsky.social•2 days ago

Takes time to learn this stuff, you know.

cenzo21.bsky.social•2 days ago

Nah, party rammed Obama in so the party would have no futures because he gave a good speech at the 04 DNC. And he was thoroughly unprepared.

d1puck1t.bsky.social•2 days ago

The DNC was caught utterly flat footed by Obama and his legitimatly superb ground game, Clinton had been their choice. 8 years later they made damn sure no uppity "popular" candidates got in her way, regardless of polls showing Clinton would do worse in a Gen election.
That's how we got here.

busillis.bsky.social•2 days ago

This is just an engagement troll, man, don't bother giving them facts.

cenzo21.bsky.social•2 days ago

Hilary was beating McCain. The dems got cute with the new toy. And here we are. It’s crazy how the Medicare for all candidate somehow got beat by the cheaper insurance candidate.

d1puck1t.bsky.social•1 day ago

I suspect Hillary might have been able to defeat McCain, in the headwinds of everyone being sick of Bush. But Obama had the better ground game, his people built a network that everyone wanted afterwards. It's not a weird fluke, he did a better job reaching voters, fair and square.

scschluter.bsky.social•2 days ago

then in 2016 the dems said the primary vote was for show and they pick the candidate, and lost handily

zorotl.bsky.social•2 days ago

I don't normally "both sides", but you really don't need competency in the Republican party either.

douhan.bsky.social•2 days ago

Because Iowa?
I honestly don’t recall most of the stories of ‘08, the Obama camp points to Iowa as the defining moment.

charliedontsurf.bsky.social•2 days ago

It's true, I was there. Obama knew how to mobilize voters using email lists and get them to turn out. I'm not sure anyone really understands the Iowa Caucus, I have a bad track record.

nooneofcons.bsky.social•2 days ago

More to do with the Clinton camp really had no idea how the delegate math worked, so they thought CA was a winner take all state and once they got that the primary would be over. It was not, and they had no organization in a bunch of caucus states Obama cleaned up in & secured the delegate lead

suasponte2023.bsky.social•2 days ago

I don't think that's a feature of the Democratic party in particular, but a truth of the human condition.

eschatonblog.com•2 days ago

I think it exists in varying degrees in various career tracks and institutions. I think it is especially bad in the top tier of dem politics

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