Is the Brain Mostly a Modular System or Do We Need Distributed Processing Frameworks? JOCN forum debate: My take: jocnf.pubpub.org/pub/9df3pvla... Postle response: jocnf.pubpub.org/pub/jvd4x9b7... Coutanche response: jocnf.pubpub.org/pub/p1z573fu... Matchin response: jocnf.pubpub.org/pub/oypwsuw6... - ThreadSky

pessoabrain.bsky.social • 78 days ago

Is the Brain Mostly a Modular System or Do We Need Distributed Processing Frameworks?
JOCN forum debate:
My take: https://jocnf.pubpub.org/pub/9df3pvla/release/1
Postle response: https://jocnf.pubpub.org/pub/jvd4x9b7/release/1
Coutanche response: https://jocnf.pubpub.org/pub/p1z573fu/release/1
Matchin response: https://jocnf.pubpub.org/pub/oypwsuw6/release/1

Comments

dickretired.bsky.social•77 days ago

I don’t know what you mean by ‘modular’. Electrophysiology shows similar cell activity in many areas, but since these areas are interconnected it is not clear if the activity in area A is derived from area B. If modular means an area acting on it’s own that is clearly a non-starter.

benhayden.bsky.social•78 days ago

Clearly this debate is big enough that we need a whole journal devoted to it, something like "Journal of Debates about Whether Modularity is Correct or Not".

pessoabrain.bsky.social•78 days ago

Awesome journal!

molemanpeter.bsky.social•78 days ago

A problem is results of well controlled experiments. They are valuable to investigate details of brain function, eg a module. But that is never a normal brain function in a complex environment where lots of factors play a role.
"The law of conservation of misery" in https://breininactie.com/errors-and-disasters-the-perfect-storm/

molemanpeter.bsky.social•78 days ago

I think the point in defending modularity is that some specialization is needed and apparent. The amygdala is not the fear centre, but it has a special role in quick evaluation and reaction to possibly threatening situations.

pessoabrain.bsky.social•78 days ago

Right! I've never said the brain is an undifferentiated clump of cells.

nmwilkinson.bsky.social•77 days ago

There are echoes of nature-nurture vs developmental systems debates here.

"Ah but, we are clearly not a tabula rasa, there is intrinsic structure. So we need the innateness concept."

"Yes there is but no we don't, it's the wrong concept."

"But we are not tabula rasa."

"Uuuurrgghh 🙄"

nmwilkinson.bsky.social•77 days ago

Is it me, or do the replies argue against a bit of a straw man, a dichotomy that @pessoabrain.bsky.social is not proposing?

Fact is, there is a long history of proposing localisation of very broad functions, like language or navigation to give brain regions.

And even if things have...

nmwilkinson.bsky.social•77 days ago

...moved on, there is a bit of a hangover from that mindset. And also a bit of a tendency to act like no-one ever really believed in that stuff, perhaps?

jbarbosa.org•78 days ago

"The circuit/network itself is the unit, not the brain area. "

What's the difference between a region and a circuit/network?

Further: Aren't you just calling a module a network?

pessoabrain.bsky.social•78 days ago

No, they are flexible and context dependent, also overlapping. I develop these ideas here a little.
"The Spiraling Cognitive–Emotional Brain: Combinatorial, Reciprocal, and Reentrant Macro-organization,"
But a lot to be developed ofc
https://direct.mit.edu/jocn/article-abstract/36/12/2697/120312/The-Spiraling-Cognitive-Emotional-Brain?redirectedFrom=fulltext

pessoabrain.bsky.social•78 days ago

Consider contributing to the debate, especially if you're less modularity oriented 😅
Note that the 3 responses are modularity positive somehow!

molemanpeter.bsky.social•78 days ago

About lesions: a lesion does not prove that the function lost is executed by the module where the lesion is. It is metaphoricly like removing the wheel of a car proving that the driving capacity of a car is in that wheel. This actually is your book, can't find the exact place.

ron-mandel-neuro.bsky.social•78 days ago

I believe the answer is both. I don't have time to defend this position now but lower level cortical processing (primary cortices) is modular and higher level connected areas are distributed.

ron-mandel-neuro.bsky.social•78 days ago

This explains localized lesions causing specific deficits while other lesions in higher order cortices are much more complex.

pessoabrain.bsky.social•78 days ago

That's a legitimate position, but some of us disagree.

ron-mandel-neuro.bsky.social•78 days ago

Reciprocal connections between primary cortices and thalamus can be a form of distributed function but cortico-cortical distribution may be more characteristic of higher order cortex. Anyway, disagreement is good in the end.

pessoabrain.bsky.social•78 days ago

Agreed, we need to pursue competing views and test when they provide superior explanatory power.

manlius.bsky.social•78 days ago

I buy your take, but to be scientifically sound it should provide explanations for observations that the modularity alone could not give. And then it should be able to make a testable prediction.

Ideas?

pessoabrain.bsky.social•78 days ago

Sure, I have tried to do that throughout my fMRI career and before that in computational models. That has been my approach to study interactions between emotion, cognition, motivation, and perception.

pessoabrain.bsky.social•78 days ago

My first book, The Cognitive-Emotional Brain was also an attempt to do that. But it's not computational, maybe that's what you have in mind.

manlius.bsky.social•78 days ago

Experimental is lovely.

Truth is in the experiments, not in the theories.

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