Any system of morals that predisposes that hard work is inherently good for you and that things that make life easier are innately suspect is always going to be fundamentally prejudiced against the disabled.
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That's true, but there is enough diversity of both work and disability that I think it's a massive generalisation. Plus of course what constitutes hard work is surely subjective to the individual anyway. If people are doing the best they personally can do, they are working hard.
I never understand this mentality that *I will never be in need* so we can never account for need in our infrastructure
A basic thought might say we are all generally one pet underfoot or misstep from a broken leg or arm, so why not plan for it in the things we use everyday, Make It better for all.
It goes so far that I have elderly relatives who endured massive side effects because 'real medicine is bitter'. Others had to drag them to their GP to switch medication because the side effects of one pill essentially kept other pills from working on top of making them absolutely miserable.
Me, staring at this thread and wondering if my total inability to ask for help because I feel like it makes me a bad person is related to my fucking awful Christian upbringing with vaguely “learn to do everything in case of the apocalypse” side notes: oh fuck
I think it's a mixture of Calvinist "If you are badly off, it means you are a bad person" and being taught that you should never be a burden to others?
As a Disabled person who lives in enforced poverty in the US and used to run a mutual aid project, I have a lot of thoughts about help and asking for help.
To a certain extent, I ask for help out of defiance as much as anything.
That said, not every attempt to help is equal or equally welcome. It's complicated. Which is why I have a lot of thoughts and think it's worth talking about.
I distinguish between being Helpful (which is when people do things that actually help) vs being Helpy (which is when people do things that look and feel to the putative helper like they would be Helpful but which do not actually help)
(Since not everybody knows this about me, I spent years with a serious walking pain issue that significantly impacted my mobility, but I felt like it was my fault so I just had to push through it harder, and if I did, it would just magically resolve.)
The psychologist who saved me once told me that about 50% of her work is unpicking religious bullshit from people's brains. Not the god stuff - the guilt and purity and sacrifice and 'work ethic' which screws so many people. As a recovering Catholic, I was riddled with it.
I know more people who are not so much "not religious" and more of "fuck you Christian God" religious. No sky god offering platitudes excuses the awfulness that is, and my friends *hate* God for that.
You know what the fucked up thing about that is? Those same people aggressively insist that charity — helpfulness — is a virtue! But if something is a blessing to offer, IT CANNOT BE A SIN TO ACCEPT.
From the religion I grew up in (and out of), generally the idea was that bad things *only* happen to *bad* people. Unless that bad thing is actually a test for a good person to publicly show how good they (or another) person really is. And "good" people don't help "unrepentant" bad people...
So in my zine on becoming disabled I talk a tiny bit about the hack I used to get past this in my head, which is that when my friends are hurting, I desperately want to help them but often don't know what to do. Assuming my friends feel the same, me asking for help or accepting help *helps them*.
It's not that it's a sin to accept it (we are about to wade into Calvinism! Fuck you John Calvin!) it's that God selects the Elect according to his pleasure and indicates their status by dispensation of His blessings, so if you need charity you are clearly a depraved sinner going to hell instead.
It is not sinful to accept charity but needing charity indicates that you are in fact inherently sinful and going to hell and that is shameful and should be hidden etc etc and fuck you, John Calvin, and your inability to imagine a loving God.
I’ve seen some Baptist gospel concerts with preaching between numbers, and the common theme is “Jesus gives good luck, the Devil gives bad luck.” So if someone’s prospering and healthy, it must be that Jesus loves them, but if they have any troubles, it must be that the Devil got to them.
The most disorienting aspect is that your actions don't save you or damn you, they merely prove whether you are already saved or damned. It's a perfect religion for abusers and victims.
Calvin was so pro-class system that he reinvented the indenture system, and made the spending both voluntary AND a wildly non-humble brag. Luther must've gagged in his pine box. (Not that Luther was any great shakes but...)
If accepting help truly made someone a bad person, charity would be as wicked as uncovered shoulders or whatever the fuck “temptation” those folks are usually on about.
Saw Jose Andres say something like, “Charity is too often all about the redemption of the giver.” There’s this weird idealization thing, like, no, it’s not what you think help “should” look like or who you think “deserves” it, you give what’s needed to who needs it, bc they need it & bc you can.
That is what it is, yes. Because people have looked at the example of Jesus washing a prostitute’s feet and decided that this means that they are entitled to feel both separate from and superior to other people
“Our job is to love others without stopping to inquire whether or not they are worthy. That is not our business and, in fact, it is nobody's business. What we are asked to do is to love, and this love itself will render both ourselves and our neighbors worthy.”
Luckily for all involved I am on mobile so you don't have to sit through an ad hoc lecture on success being a kinda-sorta but very fragile sign of being of the Elect.
And there are also plenty of disabled people (e.g. in wheelchairs) who are disadvantaged by lack of good pedestrian/mixed use infrastructure that would allow them to safely get around when not in cars.
Absolutely there are! I love bicycles. I love non-automobile transportation options. I vigorously support infrastructural and institutional efforts to make it as easy as possible for people to choose to use them.
Kinda looked to me like you were saying cyclists (like me!) who participate in Bicyclist Discourse are "fundamentally prejudiced against the disabled." Maybe you should be more specific about who you are criticizing, instead of aiming your criticism at all cyclists.
Were you working from a fundamental principle that hard work is fundamentally good for you and that anything that makes life easier is inherently suspicious?
The way I read it, you were saying that everyone who participates in Bicycle Discourse is ableist and also believes that anything that makes life easier is suspicious. I now accept that you did not mean that. But that was my honest read of your two posts.
It hurts bicyclists too! I’m a bike advocate and I tell people “this is not a safe road unless my 8 year old can ride on it safely.” Being macho about “being able to handle cars” is prejudiced against kids, slower cyclists, parents w/kids, etc. It prevents safer infrastructure from being built.
And a lot of that infrastructure is valuable to a variety of different types of people. We’ve got to work towards complete streets, not “suck it up and ride.”
The number of old white guys who got mad that I said cyclists were not, in fact, an oppressed minority like trans people was distressingly higher than 0 before I muted the thread
SO MUCH. like it’s possible to say “hey, our cities and suburbs are often set up in ways that make cycling unnecessarily difficult and dangerous” without getting all WOE about it
Yah I've always felt weird in these discussions because, for whatever reasons, I can't ride a bike. Tried for years, just don't have enough balance or w/e. My MIL is the same. Bicycle discussions still leave me feeling guilty for not riding, but... I really can't? (to be fair, I'd be terrified to
Speaking as an old casual cyclist with osteoarthritis, around here I find *most* drivers reasonably considerate. Not always, but those ones aren't considerate of anyone else anyway
That's my experience locally. In Melbourne there were lots of really rude cyclists. I'm happy to share the road with cyclists, but some cyclists seemed to resent sharing with cars.
It has become very common here.
Motor vehicle drivers seem to think it’s death race; once upon a time, teen girls rode their horses along the roads, but after a few deliberate, unprosecuted human horse vehicular homicides, that’s lost and a big community loss, a horrible change
Yeah. Drivers are frequently awful. This is because people are frequently awful, and drivers tend to be people. Cyclists are completely justified in their opposition to awful drivers. This does not mean that driving is inherently immoral!
Driving has outsized impacts on the environment and the health of other people (via pollution and car crashes). If it’s your only option due to disability or location, that’s fine. But if it’s perfectly viable for you to take public transport or cycle, then driving instead *is* kinda immoral.
And here you are, posting this on a network with a computer or smartphone, and both were only made possible by forced-labor slavery used to mine cobalt.
Most drivers excuse awfulness, at least in the US. Drivers who kill people with their cars get no punishment unless they were drunk or left the scene of the accident, because other drivers think it's fine to speed and kill, or kill because you didn't look while turning, or merge and kill.
Interesting recent research showed that people are extra awful behind the wheel and that bad behavior by drivers is excused way more than if the same behavior happened outside of a car.
There is polling to say that drivers don’t see cyclists as human and I regularly see violent rhetoric from motorists about cyclists, there are definitely huge blind spots to people who have no choice but to drive from them though.
it’s like drivers are frequently awful to cyclists and both drivers and cyclists are frequently awful to pedestrians but i agree thats bc people can be awful, i dont think it’s oppression against pedestrians
then again there was the time my friend got death threats from cyclists bc of trying to campaign to use steady lights instead of strobing/blinking lights (bc photosensitive epilepsy)
There are malicious drivers and a far larger set of dangers are posed by drivers who just have no fucking clue how to share the road with cyclists no matter how much we try to stay out of the way
it is systemic and it is terribly common
guessing you're not a fat genderqueer
but I am and I have been purposely attacked by vehicles twice - once while cycling once while walking and almost any time I spend any amount of time off active transpo infrastructure I am deliberately threatened by cars
I love cycling as my exercise but even as an able-bodied young man I was priced into a city where the only way to regularly get to work on time was with a car. No viable public transit, no nothing. And god help you if you’re trying to ride a bike in Massachusetts in winter.
oh damn I agreed with the first statement
and then you had to follow with this
bikes aren't good cause they are hard work
they are good because not everyone can drive
and they actually make getting around easier for many of us with disabilities, including myself
Given that you're not making the first argument, you're not in the set of people I'm looking at here. I am a big fan of non-auto transportation, for all the reasons you cite and more.
I just feel a bit aggrieved by all the hate directed at cyclists and would like a break from it
yes some cyclists are insufferable but for every shitty bro cyclist there are like 100 shitty motorists who are actually maiming and killing folks so why we always ragging on cyclists?
Because we can have two conversations at once and they can both be valid.
Cyclists should be better protected. And also, cycling is not an available transportation option to everyone, and the cycling community at large tends to be unwelcome at best, downright hostile at worst, to disabled folks.
You identify as somebody with a disability, so presumably that hasn't been your experience. I'm glad! But that doesn't mean it's not how many of us are treated by cyclists.
And just life in general. Like honestly I think a world where disabled people suffer the able still suffer until eventually they can't take it anymore and something either disables or worse kills them.
That reminds me of the weird outrage that some people have about products in infomercials. “Who is too lazy to pour pasta using a regular colander? Why would anyone need this product [that is obviously adapted for folks with limited strength/tremors/poor gross motor skills]??”
Very well said. I am disabled and have been riding since April on my E-bike. I can go around 20 miles, whereas a 5k walk would wipe me out for a week. People might be judging because I look normal enough, but WTF-ever. Maybe E-bikes will create more safe streets supporters. I am one now.
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A basic thought might say we are all generally one pet underfoot or misstep from a broken leg or arm, so why not plan for it in the things we use everyday, Make It better for all.
To a certain extent, I ask for help out of defiance as much as anything.
And because being human requires being helped.
Were you ice skating on that??
Toxic AF
In related news: FUCK YOU JOHN CALVIN !!!!!
“Our job is to love others without stopping to inquire whether or not they are worthy. That is not our business and, in fact, it is nobody's business. What we are asked to do is to love, and this love itself will render both ourselves and our neighbors worthy.”
*fistbump*
Motor vehicle drivers seem to think it’s death race; once upon a time, teen girls rode their horses along the roads, but after a few deliberate, unprosecuted human horse vehicular homicides, that’s lost and a big community loss, a horrible change
How could you be so immoral?
but that’s ableism, not pedestrian oppression
guessing you're not a fat genderqueer
but I am and I have been purposely attacked by vehicles twice - once while cycling once while walking and almost any time I spend any amount of time off active transpo infrastructure I am deliberately threatened by cars
My apologies.
and then you had to follow with this
bikes aren't good cause they are hard work
they are good because not everyone can drive
and they actually make getting around easier for many of us with disabilities, including myself
yes some cyclists are insufferable but for every shitty bro cyclist there are like 100 shitty motorists who are actually maiming and killing folks so why we always ragging on cyclists?
and SO MUCH ableism and erasure of disabled people who don't drive in the neverending conversation about how shitty cyclists are
it seems like the only conversation anyone is ever having TBH
Cyclists should be better protected. And also, cycling is not an available transportation option to everyone, and the cycling community at large tends to be unwelcome at best, downright hostile at worst, to disabled folks.
but no one is saying we shouldn't have roads at all because of that - unlike with bikes
and I'm tired of folks derailing important conversation about transportation justice cause of a few shitty cyclists