[Guy who invented USB-C] What if there was a technical standard where the connector would physically fit but you could never be sure whether the cable would work with whatever device you plug it into? - ThreadSky

jamesomalley.co.uk • 89 days ago

[Guy who invented USB-C]
What if there was a technical standard where the connector would physically fit but you could never be sure whether the cable would work with whatever device you plug it into?

Comments

derekballing.com•89 days ago

I give you IEC-320 where if you do it wrong you let the magic smoke out of your computer.

itsbeneveryone.bsky.social•89 days ago

HDMI: Am I a joke to you?

lwis.me•89 days ago

He at least solved half the original problem, but created a few more in the process.

lexmechanic.com•89 days ago

It's revenge for making the plug fit upside down as well.

allthebs.bsky.social•89 days ago

This is still not the worst tradeoff

kougeru.bsky.social•89 days ago

Weird that I've never had this issue with dozens of devices and cables. Don't buy cheap shit

sadlugigi.bsky.social•88 days ago

Something interesting: The USB-C was actually going to have a model where it worked both ways. The issue was that they were a bit more costly to make, and as well they would have to convince companies to import this new USB into their products. So, in the end, it was a good idea that got scrapped.

helloruiz.com•89 days ago

They literally said “here’s the hardware, you guys can figure out the software”

byteframe.bsky.social•89 days ago

Don't blame the connector.

ijr1970.bsky.social•89 days ago

TL;DR: USB C-Word.

charlierichmond.bsky.social•89 days ago

yup, that's it, that's the one

mraymondus.bsky.social•89 days ago

Better than a standard for an asymmetric cable connector that only fits one way, and by default always tries to insert the wrong way three times before it goes in correctly?

USB-C is already better. Even if cheap cables don't always work. :)

venkellie.secondlife.bio•89 days ago

ya theres to many USB types now, was suppose to be just 1 type for all. All these new types are not only out of control but CONFUSING!

jpatparty.bsky.social•89 days ago

*USB-D has entered the chat*

doughyflowy.bsky.social•89 days ago

One of my macbook chargers can charge my Switch only if it’s plugged in with a certain side up 🤷

kleinhaeschen.bsky.social•89 days ago

Yeah, we solved the rotational symmetry problem, but we've added juuuuust enough unreliability to be sure folks will always check "is this the right way up?"

swervinglemon.bsky.social•89 days ago

Example?

co5micwaffle.bsky.social•89 days ago

Nintendo Switch dock requires a certain classification of USB-C cable powerful enough to support connecting to TVs, while the Switch itself can be charged with pretty much any USB-C cable

There's a ton of other devices that do this too, but this is the only one I can name lol

swervinglemon.bsky.social•88 days ago

I was unaware. I had assumed you were in Apple hell.
I just use the HDMI out on my switch dock and a normal USB for charging. 😐 Can't speak to any compatibility issues with C yet. It's been far better, IME, than Micro.

co5micwaffle.bsky.social•88 days ago

It's a step up from micro and USB-A and works really well for charging and data transfer. The problem showed up when people decided that USB-C should replace *every* type of cable, yet many USB-C cables can't replace every type of cable, and the ones that can aren't labeled differently.

swervinglemon.bsky.social•88 days ago

The spec calls for a marking on the cable end that indicates it's capabilities.

If we don't purchase non-spec cables, maybe the manufacturers will catch on.

dinya.bsky.social•89 days ago

Aye! don't tell me this I might end up going back to using my cheap microusb 😂

potato-salesman.bsky.social•89 days ago

Such promise

Such disappointment

toomuchspoon.bsky.social•88 days ago

Could you ever be sure the cable would work based on connection?

serpentinization.bsky.social•88 days ago

This seems consistent with reality.

celeripes.bsky.social•89 days ago

The connector (type c) and the protocol (USB X.X) are separate. The protocol determines the capabilities of the cable (speed, types of data). The USB-IF muddled the protocol naming and discourages labeling the spec on products. This lets companies cheap out and make cables with limited support.

jbloodthorn.bsky.social•89 days ago

All my homies hate USB-IF

celeripes.bsky.social•89 days ago

One can argue that allowing cables of limited function is pro consumer as it can lower the price of products that don't need the full spec (bluetooth earbuds don't need a charge cable that supports video). But I think not labeling them is deceptive at best and the tiny savings aren't a viable excuse

crafciak31.bsky.social•89 days ago

Yeah, how hard it is to label a fucking cable correctly, and to require proper labels as a standard? It's a joke on the side of the USB foundation, however they are called. And they're only complicating it further with weird USB standard names, I honestly believe it's to just fuck with everyone.

crafciak31.bsky.social•89 days ago

But other than that, I like usb-c :V

ardun.bsky.social•89 days ago

Guy who invented it did not want this to happen, apple started it and companies copied

fichefindr.bsky.social•89 days ago

As an Avionics tech, you are describing my life🙁

thescottyallen.bsky.social•89 days ago

I’m convinced these are actual discussions.

mobcat.zip•89 days ago

[Guy who invented USB-C]
What if we also made the standard compatible with usb 2 in some sort of legacy mode, to make the transition to usb c easy.
[Every cheap usb c device wired in usb 2 legacy mode so they don't need to spend extra for usb 3 or change the usb 2 pcb at all]
wait hang on a sec..

martenwood.com•89 days ago

I just have one highest spec cable on hand and it more or less makes sure my device always works. Usually.

veneroso.bsky.social•89 days ago

Do we blame Thunderbolt for adopting the same connector or USB for not rolling in the Thunderbolt specification?

Either way, I am hoping that AMD can get Thunderbolt support for external GPU on laptops!

ryan.helegrod.dev•89 days ago

USB-4 is compatible with Thunderbolt, and many modern AMD laptops support USB-4, so we're already there as far as I can tell

Framework in particular allows up to two USB-4 ports. I believe it only supports PCIE 3.0, though

veneroso.bsky.social•89 days ago

Oh wow I wasn't aware of this!

lambdacore.bsky.social•89 days ago

And what if we put the very fragile peg inside the socket which users can’t easily replace, and not the cheap cable.

celeripes.bsky.social•89 days ago

anecdotally, from having worked on the distribution side briefly, I found the type C connector to be roughly as durable, if not more so, than previous conector designs. There are durability tradeoffs for each. I was not able to see if long term failure rates due to wear were correlated though.

lambdacore.bsky.social•89 days ago

anecdotally, a lot of USB-C ports I've used end up failing after a couple years of normal use particularly on smart phones.

danwilsoncraw.bsky.social•89 days ago

Literally getting to this point now with a 15-month old phone. Luckily still has a guarantee but absolutely insane that this can happen to products that (UK) phone companies sell on 3-year payment plans

adamlbrown.bsky.social•89 days ago

Inability to charge sometime between 12 and 24 months seems primary means of enforcing scheduled obsolescence of smartphones

lambdacore.bsky.social•89 days ago

Sure does, I feel similarly about the fact that every phone has a glued shut battery you can't replace on your own without experience and a decent set of tools.

celeripes.bsky.social•89 days ago

Thank you for your data. I was unable to track multi-year data previously. Out of curiosity, if you remember, were these failures due to breaking that "peg" (CC Pin) or due to other issues like connectivity/pin wear?

lambdacore.bsky.social•89 days ago

It was due to the CC pin on the port, it was particularly troublesome on the V60 which had a second display it would slide into. It was a pretty neat design, but it would constantly wear on the port and eventually wouldn't charge anymore.

hk-nien.bsky.social•89 days ago

I broke many micro-USB cables on phones; never had that problem with USB-C. The phone-side female connector tends to get clogged with pocket lint, which prevents the plug from going all the way in. Prying the lint out with a needle works well.

dualpromax.bsky.social•89 days ago

My Dell laptop blew up my cellphone charger🥲

stanleytweedle.bsky.social•89 days ago

The term 'universal' was a misunderstanding from the get-go. People think it means it's supposed to work with everything but it really meant that all matter in the universe would eventually be converted to USB connectors.

edciting.bsky.social•89 days ago

overheard

475nm.bsky.social•89 days ago

Not even my increasingly large pile of homemade paperclips is safe?

475nm.bsky.social•89 days ago

I've started a Roko's basilisk cult spinoff, where we will all be punished if we don't help turn the universe into paperclips.

@fullydigitalfuture.bsky.social

alishata.bsky.social•89 days ago

A trust issued invention

daeden323.bsky.social•89 days ago

I mean, they all charge, right? 90% of all my use for usb-c is to charge something.

tapesinside.bsky.social•88 days ago

then there's laptops that have a USB-C port but it doesn't support charging and you still have to use the bespoke barrel plug to charge it, actually I'm not even sure if they're video outputs, if it isn't just USB 3 power output + data

cronin.xxx•89 days ago

The rules of USB appear to be that there must be one fatal flaw with every version.

stevelouise.bsky.social•89 days ago

I could imagine this whole debacle solved by simply printing a number somewhere on the cable. "I need a USB-C 4 or 5 to charge this."

"USB-C 6 is the minimum for a decent laptop dock, but HP has been shipping their docks with the faster USB-C 7."

kaliovhate.bsky.social•88 days ago

i mean strictly technically that is the case, they just decided to name them in a random order and every time a new one releases the order changes

stevelouise.bsky.social•88 days ago

Good good & fine fine. We can learn which is which based on our needs.

Now all that needs to happen is manufacturers printing their exact adherence to the product. I don't think they'd ever do that.

kaliovhate.bsky.social•88 days ago

HP and Lenovo would rather burn down their HQ rather than sign off on adhering to a form factor.

doublecorvid.bsky.social•89 days ago

https://xkcd.com/927/

virtuo.uk•89 days ago

Doesn't sound like something HP would do

hk-nien.bsky.social•89 days ago

To use the features of a HP dock, you have to buy a proprietary €25 HP cable, which will stop working after a certain number of electrons have passed through, typically after 2 months of usage. HP will offer a cable subscription for €10 per month.
/s

stevelouise.bsky.social•89 days ago

I just died a little inside.

stevelouise.bsky.social•89 days ago

Shit, you're right.

scarletelsewhere.bsky.social•89 days ago

"We hear you"

agg-acc.bsky.social•88 days ago

You need the standard printed on both sides of the port.

What if instead we used a different standard for each new generation to ensure that you couldn't plug wrong versions together?

serpentinization.bsky.social•88 days ago