Struggling to see how that’s going to work though. It’s a bit like you and I negotiating over the ownership of Mar A Largo when neither of us currently own it.
Trump can promise Putin whatever he wants, but if the Ukrainians aren’t on board it’s not worth diddly squat.
If will become even more obscene as European leaders fall silent. Say what we will about the Cold War - the US worldview has shifted away from the protection of western liberal democracy.
Very similar to talks with Trump and Netanyahu, Palestinian leaders are left out threatening world security. Marginalisation, dehumanising and discrimination in action. Justice means denouncing both or shutting up.
If that's the logic then this can happen at any time for whatever reason and I think it's time to call this special relationship for what it really is, an abusive one.
It can and it probably will. And it is. But the hubris of politicians means they’ll think they can manipulate him by flattering him and sucking up to him. Until they realise too late that they’ve made a big fucking mistake.
No-All he wants is corporate power worldwide. He couldn’t care less about political/govt stability because corporations are supranational, & e wants to sell arms to EU to make money out of both sides.
like Mother courage who ended selling/killing her kids to profit from a war by playing both sides
They're [politicians] all on the road to corporatism, freeports SEZ's here in Blighty? Trump is an admirer of Putin's overlordship of Russia's Oligarchical model who serve at his pleasure
I agree but the right wing press and the racists, happy to go and lie in the Sun in Europe but don't want EU alignment. Because Boris told them to "take back control of their sovereign nation".
One can only hope they would decide differently if asked again. I'm still waiting for the Brexit benefits to be outlined. Those happy to lie in the sun will have not enjoyed queuing for entry into EU countries.
If they hate Europeans so much, why go. They should go to America or Cornwall. Anyway Brexit benefits. No membership fees, fishermen can decide how to manage its fisheries. The UK now has full control over its immigration policies and makes its own law. That's enough for the Daily Mail readers
Most certainly, but Labour simply won't venture down that road, even if the benefits outweigh the risks. Anyway right now Labour will struggle to fend off Farage and if Reform (god forbid) lead in the polls. Musk will inject 10's millions & the right wing press will enable them. That's what they do.
The path forward is simple; Don’t react to what the US says, simply hit them where it hurts. Let’s start by boycotting everything (http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa_boycott.html ) and work our way up to removing the US dollar as the world reserve currency.
The path forward is simple; Don’t react to what the US says, simply hit them where it hurts for the coming 4 years. Let’s start by boycotting everything, and then systematically work our way all the way up to removing the US dollar as the world reserve currency.
It's not just that but it shows that he isn't serious. How can anyone involved approve of the idea. All he can do is blackmail and bully the countries who refuse and that won't help matters
I agree, but we'd do well not to describe anything he does in 2025 as "negotiating".
While I hate him, it's not as though every single thing went against him in his first term. This time however, I defy anyone to point to a single instance of America getting the better of any deal so far?
No, Donald Trump THINKING (as much as he is able to) he's going to be able to negotiate away a chunk if aeurope to Putin, without Ukraine, or any other European country at the table. He'll do jack shit without agreement from Europe and Ukraine.
It's how he sees the world. From now on, basically all negotiations of this nature could well fall to the US, Russia and China, as far as he's concerned. Lesser nations (Panama, Palestine, Canada, Denmark, Ukraine, any EU nation, since Brexit and sidelining NATO) will have to comply.
He is negotiating on behalf of Russia, not with. He is doing deals with Putin regards getting his hands on Ukraine's resources. The USA is our adversary.
Musk/Trump will be after Ukraine's mineral resources before Putin gets his paws on them. In turn they will give Putin the occupied areas. Once the minerals are extracted they will leave Ukraine to it and Russia, having rearmed, will invade again.
Will this, on top of everything else, drive UK intelligence sharing away from the US? Is the UK continuing to share intelligence as it always has? Will Five Eyes become Four?
It's nonsense as much as obscene. You can't have a bilateral peace treaty when one of the parties isn't even involved in the conflict. Trump is as relevant as a streaker.
Other than to Trump's ego, does it make any difference to what happens on the ground, though?
Trump and Putin can carve up Ukraine any way they like over a map on a boardroom table, but if neither the Ukrainians (nor the Europeans backing them) agree to it, isn't it all pretty pointless posturing?
How dare you. Trump is so gracious, and generous, and our relation with Trump and indeed the USA has never been stronger, and will get stronger still in the coming years.
Negative obscene is offset by positive obscene. That is Karma. It is all subjective. At the end of the day, your Karma is your greatest teacher. Many of us ignore it and move on, but it catches up with us more viciously. So, let us sit with our Karma and learn even small lessons.
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This isn't a US government. It's a crime syndicate.
Only so far this evening, they've said absolutely nothing.
Nothing at all.
Gaza right in front of our eyes.
Trump can promise Putin whatever he wants, but if the Ukrainians aren’t on board it’s not worth diddly squat.
What, Sir? You get to keep everything you’ve taken from Ukraine…because you worked so hard to get it…
Yes Sir! And you’re going to come to visit me?
Oh, Sir!! Thank…
What’s that, Sir?
The best President ever!!
Sir…oh Sir…Thank you, Sir…
(Hangs up and whispers)
I love you, Daddy…
like Mother courage who ended selling/killing her kids to profit from a war by playing both sides
While I hate him, it's not as though every single thing went against him in his first term. This time however, I defy anyone to point to a single instance of America getting the better of any deal so far?
Western Europe needs to quash NATO and form a new Europe Only alliance. Time for action against fascists like Putin and Trump.
The US is no longer an ally.
Trump and Putin can carve up Ukraine any way they like over a map on a boardroom table, but if neither the Ukrainians (nor the Europeans backing them) agree to it, isn't it all pretty pointless posturing?
At least, that is what Labour is claiming.