Conservatism succumbed to fascism as easily and rapidly as conservatives long (and inaccurately) warned liberalism would succumb to communism. - ThreadSky

sethcotlar.bsky.social • 7 days ago

Conservatism succumbed to fascism as easily and rapidly as conservatives long (and inaccurately) warned liberalism would succumb to communism.

Reposted from diy circumcision advocate

the complete collapse of conservatism as an ideological formation in the west feels like it should probably be more remarked on.

Comments

katbuns.bsky.social•7 days ago

Frightened people do weird things.

zachrabiroff.com•7 days ago

*Again.

andrewlindsey.bsky.social•7 days ago

Makes me wonder if people were making remarks on the collapse of liberalism when communism bloomed a century ago.

scasburn.bsky.social•6 days ago

I will never, ever get over the fact that so many Republicans over so many decades directed so many taunts at the French for collapsing against the Nazis, and then surrendered their own political party to the Nazis with far less of a fight than the French put up.

I will never, ever get over that.

jamestalley.bsky.social•7 days ago

Serious question, Seth: what, if any, were the guardrails in conservatism that were supposed to keep it from going fascist? Because I'm coming up blank.

rachellazerus.bsky.social•7 days ago

My best guess is there's been an unspoken assumption that conservatism as theory is the political equivalent of inertia, and therefore couldn't go to the extremes where any other unchecked political movement would inevitably end up.

It turns out political theories don't always resemble reality!

jamestalley.bsky.social•6 days ago

I guess something similar. Like if conservatism = tradition + hierarchy, then any change to those would be a guardrail, kinda. That only "works" as a holding action once some democratization & egalitarianism emerges, enabling conservatism to stand athwart history yelling STOP. 1/

jamestalley.bsky.social•6 days ago

But if tradition + hierarchy is the root DNA, AND if democracy and equality continue to progress despite conservatism's yelling, inevitably, conservatism will have to morph into fascism's destruction of the regime & replacement of it with a prior, mythic nightmare that punts all "conservatism's" 2/

jamestalley.bsky.social•6 days ago

so-called "principles." Rendering those prior "principles" as faux guardrails against fascism all along. They were, basically, veiled threats, lines in the sand: "Accept these, or else we'll go full fash."

unreasonable-man.bsky.social•7 days ago

Conservatism didn't succumb to fascism. Fascism was always its aspiration. Liberalism succumbed to fascism.

jplanet.bsky.social•7 days ago

Conservativism didn't "succumb to fascism"

Conservativism was obviously fascist for almost all of my adult life.

Fascist and racist.

nickgossert.bsky.social•7 days ago

Conservative politics have always been about selfishness, cruelty, and the moral gymnastics to claim that both are good and necessary. In the Internet era it has been impossible to control the narrative and sell their world view in the marketplace of ideas; so it has embraced brute force.

minionofmidas.bsky.social•7 days ago

Every accusation a confession

drhspoliticalcafe.bsky.social•7 days ago

Same as it always was 🫠🫠🫠 Italian Conservatives showed the way a century ago (and Italian Liberals as well being the first big collaborators to Fascism). The main difference since 1945 and then, is that Conservatisms globally are more onboard with Fascism than ever.

87mckay.bsky.social•4 days ago

In political parties, Robert Michels who later supported Mussolini, said in his footnotes that conservatives are fascists trapped in a democracy. Fascists are conservatives freed from democratic norms. That's your experience explained.

fauxids.bsky.social•7 days ago

It seems like they are abandoning the use of the word conservative to describe themselves too.

moreacomment.bsky.social•7 days ago

So did Social Democracy, which is arguably Marxism tempered by a conservative sensibility.
As soon as a social system worth conserving was achieved, the conservative sensibility vanished.

iconoplasty.bsky.social•6 days ago

And to former communists, even.

moanknight.bsky.social•7 days ago

To be fair it seems rapid but it was always becoming this. The most obvious example of "slowly at first and then all at once"

lincolnskayak.bsky.social•7 days ago

& Video games were supposed to rot brains… but social media algorithms turn out to be real villain!
• 2014-15 Gamergate misogynistic online harassment recruits men
• 2016 Manafort polling data to Kilimnick to Cambridge Analytica—targets key swing districts on FB & helps install Putin puppet in WH

sethcotlar.bsky.social•7 days ago

The minute the New Deal started conservatives were like “it’s only a matter of a few years before we go full communism” and yet, somehow, we never got within earshot of full communism. Meanwhile, all it took was electing one Black president and within a few years we’ve got Nazi salutes at CPAC.

curtbianchi.bsky.social•7 days ago

Although, I constantly hear conservatives refer to Democrats as Marxists, so apparently they think Dems did go full communist.

rachellazerus.bsky.social•7 days ago

That's what gives them permission to go full fascist -- they told themselves they have to go this far because the left was already this extreme.

Bullshit, of course, but since it gave them the license to do exactly what they wanted to do...

sondeerrf.bsky.social•7 days ago

All it took was one Black President to make America decide a white king was actually okay.

meredith-keith.bsky.social•7 days ago

One could also argue that nominating a Democratic woman is a sure way of electing a Republican fascist.

Cuz we have empirical evidence that America would rather vote for a lying raping racist than elect a woman as president. Twice.

stub22.bsky.social•7 days ago

The female candidates were a factor, but there are other issues with how the Dem party has been communicating and failing to adapt to the evolving landscape. I wouldn't rule out a female Prez candidate being the best choice in 2028, if the party can update its software in time

charliemas.bsky.social•6 days ago

I read this argument a lot, and I say that no matter how bad the alternative, no matter how badly the alternative platform is presented, I'm not voting for the fucking Nazi.

Those who find fascism preferable to anything within the mainstream of American politics wanted fascism all along.

meredith-keith.bsky.social•6 days ago

Yep, an argument can be made this has been a 40-year effort by the right wing, starting with AM talk radio, then Fox News, then the internet, in deceiving and radicalizing half of the American population, and now coming to fruition.

led0260.bsky.social•7 days ago

Yup. Which proves that, as classist and capitalistic as this country is, it has always been more racist than anything.

annakeesey.bsky.social•7 days ago

My god exactly

notaboomer.bsky.social•7 days ago

Yes but Obama could have done so much better by simply leaning into Organizing for America instead of coddling the right

savannahcat.bsky.social•7 days ago

I believe more it was the George Bush years, which brought us the War on Terror and the 2008 Global Financial Crisis, that discredited conservatism as a political ideology. Conservatives in desperation, leaned into the culture wars which if you’re on the right-wing side of those, you are a fascist

thelasttheorist.bsky.social•7 days ago

It has been *brisk.*

annefan.bsky.social•7 days ago

Even earlier thanks to Rush Limbaugh’s hateful fearful brainwashing.

melissaf.bsky.social•7 days ago

I am old enough to recall the swastika stage at cpac.

meredith-keith.bsky.social•7 days ago

Well, I'm not the first to note that it's actually been a 40-year right-wing effort of AM talk radio, then Fox News, then the internet, to deceive and radicalize half the American populace, to finally have fruition now.

marina11.bsky.social•7 days ago

I'm from Germany
Who governs the USA?
Is Trump only the power-hungry, useful and willing pawn who will be replaced? And then his "Nazi friends" will take over together with Russia?

noamlaw.bsky.social•7 days ago

it is important to note that the “opposition” party in all of this are a wholly neoliberal party whose leaders have largely capitulated to conservatism’s fascist turn.

fascism requires collaborators and the hollowed-out, corporate liberalism of the modern Democratic Party has been fertile ground

ab9rf.bsky.social•7 days ago

conservatism doesn't succumb to fascism. conservatism inevitably leads to fascism. it is the intended end goal.

ethanjacobs.bsky.social•7 days ago

It’s been hollowed out over decades.

https://bsky.app/profile/ethanjacobs.bsky.social/post/3kmj7fprmlz2m

joewv.bsky.social•7 days ago

Some liberals, obviously to a much lessor extent than conservatives though, have exacerbated this by not confronting obviously dumb stuff from their allies like glorifying the Soviet flag and the delusional ideology they wanted it to stand for and not what it actually was in practice.

joewv.bsky.social•7 days ago

Conservatives successfully used their silence as agreement not caring that how hypocritical it was when their majority was actually embracing their fascist delusional ideas instead of just tolerating communist authoritarianism delusions like liberals did

rachellazerus.bsky.social•7 days ago

"Every accusation is a confession" turned out to be older than realized.

inkbrush.bsky.social•7 days ago

Succumbed? You sure? Sure they weren’t just fashy the whole time?

faustbot.bsky.social•7 days ago

"Conservativism" is nothing but a civil mask for fascism. Fascists decided it was safe to take the mask off, and they were right.

"Conservatism" isn't conservative in any meaningful sense. It's transformative. They have a very clear idea of what they want the world to look like, and fight for it.

faustbot.bsky.social•7 days ago

Liberalism is deeply conservative. It's an ideology based entirely on personal comfort and, for the liberals with wealth and power, that means maintaining the socioeconomic status quo.

Liberal politicians want the big ticket donor money to keep coming in. That's it. No more vision than that.

airwolf.bsky.social•7 days ago

If you get right down to it, most conservatives who object to MAGA have done for for stylistic and aesthetic reasons.

stub22.bsky.social•7 days ago

On domestic policy I agree, but on foreign affairs I think a lot of Reaganite cons are genuinely horrified by the betrayal of NATO and embrace of Russia, and that actually means more to them than tax policy

rachellazerus.bsky.social•7 days ago

Back in 2015, House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy was joking about how Trump was on Putin's payroll. In 2016 the Gang of 8 was repeatedly warned about the Trump's campaign connections with Putin. Anti-communist McConnell refused to announce the Russian attacks on the 2016 election.

They own this.

rachellazerus.bsky.social•7 days ago

Every single Reaganite neocon who supported Trump over Clinton openly and with full knowledge chose Putin's puppet because keeping Republicans in power was more important than the integrity of American democracy.

airwolf.bsky.social•7 days ago

Hopefully their love of American Empire > their desire to hurt our groups.

That’s a gross sentence, but that’s kind of what we have to hope for. 🤦🏻‍♂️

airwolf.bsky.social•7 days ago

Out groups

therealjeffstein.bsky.social•7 days ago

This is so true. Difference being deep down liberals don’t want to be communists 🙃

yinlock.bsky.social•7 days ago

hey it was a team effort, the dems set the stage for it by enforcing the status quo above all else

tonylizza.bsky.social•7 days ago

I think this was always the project, at least in the US. Our conservatives have always been deeply reactionary and anti-modern.

aldenpyle.bsky.social•7 days ago

American conservatism is Trumpism is fascism. There's not some separate intellectual tradition that really means anything.

When 97% of the people who are "conservative" are Trumpists, that's what "conservative" really means.

holzman-tweed.bsky.social•7 days ago

Conservatism didn't succumb: it was a front for fascis. From the start. Even then, every accusation was a confession.

monarchdiaries.bsky.social•7 days ago

Meh. What was conservatism anyhow? The vast majority of it can be summed up in two words: "those people".

There was really never any there, there.

maximumeffort433.bsky.social•7 days ago

Liberalism is a response to problems,
conservatism is a response to progress.

prairieguy2623.bsky.social•7 days ago

I love this.

detryckvondoom.bsky.social•7 days ago

Unfortunately, this is inaccurate given the collective history of our liberal leaders.

solidaritygoth.bsky.social•7 days ago

The liberal response to emergencies is "Vote!"

detryckvondoom.bsky.social•7 days ago

“well what’s YOUR plan?”

solidaritygoth.bsky.social•7 days ago

Oh I love that one. Sure thing, Mr/Ms elected official, I'll let you sit on all those institutions you've got the keys to while I go scrounging for last resorts (while you actively scold and warn me away)

maximumeffort433.bsky.social•7 days ago

I wish people would have listened to us. :(

detryckvondoom.bsky.social•7 days ago

Why didn’t people listen to you?

maximumeffort433.bsky.social•7 days ago

I think a lot of them are cynical and apathetic, they think their vote doesn't matter and the outcomes of an election won't affect them, they're privileged and don't care if others suffer because of their ignorance and inaction.

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