I don’t agree. Its origin is communism representing solidarity between agricultural and industrial workers. What totalitarian fascists like Stalin did with it doesn’t change its core meaning. It has nothing to do with hate, except for the hate that it evokes when viewed.
Swastika was not always a hate symbol either. Then it became associated with genocide and other crimes against humanity, just like the hammer and sickle. Though the most appropriate equivalent should be the fasces, not the swastika
The emblem of the Chinese Communist Party is the hammer and sickle displayed in golden yellow or red. According to Article 53 of the constitution of the Chinese Communist Party, "the Party emblem and flag are the symbol and sign of the Communist Party of China." Not ussr
Yep, rednecks hate Chinese people!. And black people. And well everyone not white, fraud Christian nationalist!!! His name is yeshua by the way! So screaming Jesus. Is a symbol of French actually je Suis!. Means (I am)!. Can't get that right they definitely need more education. Not Bible
Maybe. As an atheist that knows history I can see a difference but also I can see a point.
One difference is e.g. that Rome and to some point UK, did the geneocidial crimes in different times, when morality was different.
1/
2/ In Soviets situation replace nobles, clergy, teachers, middle class, democrats etc with one word, Jews, and you will see no difference between them and Nazis. Specially when Stalin was a best buddy of Adolf H.
It is a hate symbol created by the prison of nations no matter if you like it or not. And by using it, you will inevitably create hostility and fear for understandable reasons.
Your right, defending a self destructive and authoritarian form of economics is completely different from supporting an authoritarian and destructive form of governance
Communism is not authoritarian. Marxist Leninism is authoritarian and exists to bring about communism. Anarchism is anti authoritarian and has been since before your great grandpa’s time
100%. Add in the watermelon and red triangle emotes and you’ve got a 95% certainty that the account is a 1) vatnik 2) hamasnik 3) nork 4) tankie 5) yes-to-all.
Watermelon means the person supports Gaza, because the colors of the Palestinian flag include black, green, and red. On its own it’s fine, but combined with a red triangle and / or a sickle, and I have some serious questions.
Triangle is known to be linked to Hamas supporting accounts. It may have other uses, but this is the one I’m familiar with. When they livestream, they often point out targets using a red triangle due to the poor resolution.
It’s like how a Jerusalem cross looks super cool, but in light of its use by the Opus Dei and Christian nationalist crowd, I would really reconsider using it in a profile pic.
Unfortunately not anymore. I’ve seen it used in some pretty horrific contexts lately and ppl might want to reconsider the use of it in light of recent developments.
Tankies, basically USSR apologists.
And I get it Capitalism sucks balls unless you are a Capitalist. But Soviet style communism is even worse. No illusions of freedoms.
Laughably at least the Capitalist are still bothering to gas light us.
Yeah, they killed Koreans, Chinese, Cubans, Iranians, Afghanistans! Not to mention the many coups it has done and the many many dictators they hace supported! The damn system itself is unstable and always collapses every few years killing many!
Oh you're Russian. And you like communism and I presume you also like what Russia is doing?
I think I'm going to send a gift to your friends at the front https://www.weaponstoukraine.com/kampane/municia
We swing from far-right fascism all the way to far-left communism. We forget that socialism exists and involves democracy, freedom of speech, even free markets (albeit some regulation).
There's even libertarian socialism (my bias) for limited gov't outside of essentials like health, defence, etc.
Same as with a swastika, there once was an innocent use for it but once millions were murdered by people who flew a flag with one of these symbols on it it is forever tainted and should only be used in context. Not in one's profile name.
Look, war crimes aren't the same thing as genocide. Let those people accused of war crimes stand trial.
But every country has the right to defend itself.
I agree it is not the same. But murdering children in war crimes is no better than murdering children in a genocide. It is still murdering innocent children.
Netanyahu is currently doing both.
Yes, Hamas are terrorist savages who need to be stopped. Their citizens are used as human shields ffs.
On the other extreme, you have Israel deliberately targeting civilians, creating unnecessary destruction, giving Hamas lies legitimacy to the citizens in the end.
Unfortunately, I don't see Netanyahu and his government being put to trial. Because people, and countries support them.
And it makes me sad to see that.
And sure, Hamas is no better.
Those who suffer in the end are the common Palestinian and the common Israeli.
Then there's the third par which is that urban warfare is extremely casualty - heavy, unfortunately. Israel army is not the US army. There are only so many things it can do.
Israel is in a very dangerous neighborhood and cannot exactly afford to "turn the other cheek"
By this logic fascism is the final point of end-stage capitalistic development.
The systems shouldn’t control us, because we created them lol.
Strengthening democracy and human rights is key to stopping that. Communist and fascist gov’ts (often w/oligarchy) are evil. And people know this.
Communism is the goal. Societies cannot become communist without 1st being socialist. Socialism is a lay over. Communism is societal transformation. It's economic and social evolution that socialism offers. You're admittedly a Troll. You're not a very intelligent one.
Yet I don't resort to name calling and slander...hmm. Should we switch usernames?
Socialism is separate too.
It's centred vs communism, which eliminates every individual's rights+freedoms and is essentially late-stage capitalism (corporate control but with one corporation/communist party)
And this fucking chart is stupid. Far Left is believing every human being is entitled to dignity and respect? Every human being deserves shelter? That is radicalism. That is Humanism.
Karl Marx was one of the greatest fucking minds that ever lived. It deserves respect like Darwin fucking earned respect with Natural Selection. You fucking want respect. Come with respect. Or fuck off.
You don't know what youre talking about and your name has Troll in it. So I really don't see why you are entitled to respect. SO FUCK OFF! You want to learn about socialism and communism. Sit the fuck down and treat the topic WITH THE FUCKING RESPECT IT DESERVES mother fucker.
It doesn't deserve respect. Communism is a dangerous path to fascism imo.
Look at China with concentration camps for muslims (so much for equality), expansionism with Taiwan and the Philippines, the social credit system creating a tiered/unequal society that punishes the bottom, and CAPITALISM too!
So the concentration camps are the fault of communism. An economic philosophy. Hey dumbfuck. In the history of the world there has never been a communist society you ignorant and dumb mother fucker. Get the fuck out out of here stupid Fuck-wit. You know nothing about communism and socialism.
There are several.
-Has historically led to opressive regimes .
- Based on texts interpreted differently, which makes it extremely divisive even within said ideology.
- A big portion of believers focus purely on eastetics which makes it kinda wierd and culty.
- There are more but no more space to
all those regimes were lead by capitalist and/or authoritarian dictators. someone doing bad things under an ideology's name while not following the ideology doesn't make the ideology itself bad. Lets not forget "The Democratic People's Republic of Korea", and the german National Socialist party.
Sure, they may have been authoritarian but they used the ideology of communism to stay in power. A big portion of communist advocates still believe them to be good examples of communism. My claim isn't that it's all bad. Just that has some major flaws, not adressed imo.
Do you not have any self awareness? Capitalism has led to violent coups, slavery, fascism. Capitalism is based on an economic theory which was proven to not work on practice (free markets are a scam). Big portion of liberals focus also on esthetics of building your own business and getting rich. wtf
technically, it doesn't. There are many arguments to say about all of these points, but what I showed is that you don't have a reasonable basis to dislike communism, only an "emotional" one based on years of propaganda
the westsplaining comments are off the charts lmao
we know yall hate capitalism, communism aren't a better alternative (if you could even consider it an alternative) And even if you DO consider it as an alternative, do not use USSR as an example. It romanticizes USSR.
I think you can have that debate.
I'd say using the flag with 24 stars would be in bad taste at the very least and the confederate flag is definitely already regarded as a hate symbol.
The hammer and sickle are in the same realm as the confederate flag and the swastika in my opinion.
In my country, the use of this sign is punishable. Just as punishable as using the swastika. If you showed it in Poland you would be fined very heavily 😆
Holy shit you have no idea what I meant, lol. You haven't read any Adam Smith, I can tell.
Adam Smith, considered the founder of capitalism, wrote EXTENSIVELY about how the system must focus on taking care of the poor. It was foundational to his writings.
also adam smith writing about helping poor people doesn’t mean shit when the capitalist reality is drastically different. why does the richest nation in the planet have so much poverty, homelessness and income inequality?
Marx always stated the socialism can only be organically realized through the failures of capitalism. obviously he read Adam Smith. we were all fed the adam smith propaganda growing up in the US. trust me. go back to twitter.
Excuse me, but I'm fluent in multiple dialects of Tankie.
When commies want to slur liberals, they call them neoliberals. The word actually has a meaning: it refers to people like Reagan. Therefore, it doesn't fit any modern Democrat.
You think that hating billionaires gets you a pass from supporting Soviet genocides? Because to people in eastern Europe and central Asia, that is what that symbol means. Instead of talking over them, maybe for once LISTEN to them.
orwell is an anarchist who served in the spanish civil war fighting on the side of the CNT FAI, and his disgust was for state communist movements that lead to red fascism reinforcing oppression.
orwell was literally an anarchist communist who wrote against state communism and the state as a whole
In their defense, they're fomenting for a doomed revolution -- a rehash of something that has failed catastrophically every time it's attempted -- so you can forgive them for having a chip on their shoulder. You can't forgive them for choosing this idiotic idiology to simp for, though.
If I say something like "All Ukrainians are nazis!" (obviously not true), there will be a shittonn of people flooding the comments to say that I am wrong and a Russian bot or something. When you say something offensive to people' ideas - they comment on it. not that hard to grasp imho
The ☭ symbol is about liberation. Don't let autocrats and hypercapitalist scum take the symbol of democratizing the workplace and turn it into a feared, hated thing. You're giving them what they want. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."
Liberation from the harmful effects of capitalism and a system that produces haves and have-nots. Harmful excesses at the top and harmful deprivations at the bottom. Environmental destruction. Massive wealth inequality. Where have you been? 🤔
Socialism does a surprisingly great job at addressing the most pressing concerns of our time— the guaranteed right to healthcare, housing, work, higher education, racial/gender equality, etc. 🤷♂️
Some say why. Vlad and the country he rules over Russia have become the antithesis of human progress, the authoritarianism and the ensuing banality of evil of his underlings are symptoms of this one man's ambition and ambition like that is the death of thought.
Who's the one committing a genocide chief?
Adding to that Israel funded HAMAS because the PLO was too sympathetic and they (Israel) wanted an excuse to continue being genocidal.
The Nazis called their symbol the Hakenkreuz or hooked cross.
I sympathise with the argument that the Anglosphere should also call the Nazi emblem the hakenkreuz, and reserve swastika for the ancient symbol still used in Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, amongst others.
Unfortunately it is the same symbol and as I said, meaning is not in the symbol itself, but what people connect with it.
Look: the cross, which was a roman method of torturing people to death, was adopted by a new religious group - Christians as a symbol of hail, hope and love,
which was later used to wage war and murder "infidels" in the crusades. Christianization with the cross as its symbol in the New world stand for colonization, enslavement and death for the native peoples.
...
This argues that Hitler did misappropriate the swastika, and that the word hakenkreuz was already being used to refer to the swastika, but still argues for using hakenkreuz to refer to the Nazi use.
And here something from Lithuania, where the Swastika, like in Latvia too, is still considered as traditional lore and part of folk culture. The mentioned Kernave today an archaeological park and museum was a capital of medieval Lithuania, I have been there in 2022 https://en.efhr.eu/2012/02/03/swastika-historical-heritage-of-lithuania/
The combination of whirling logs (Swastika) with a propeller is definately interesting.
The Swastika came to the New World with immigrants from the Old World and became/was popular there among Native Americans especially in the South West until in the early 1940's ...
No Russians needed to know that during the late paleolithic commonly known as ice age, mammoth hunters wandered and hunted in the vast mammoth steppe between eastern central and western Europe and these hunters were known for their carvings in mammoth ivory, fine expamples craftsmenship and art.
Unfortunately the guy seems to have know idea of European or old world prehistory, history, cultures.
And Siddhartha Gautama better known as the Buddha was also no Nazi ...
hell, in the US in the late 20s into the early 30s it was gaining popularity as a positive symbol used on shirts, quilts, mugs, and other artifacts, in the same way, and meaning, as the 60's peace sign.
It was Diwali a few weeks ago, the Hindu Festival of Lights. My Indian neighbours had their door decorated with the traditional swastikas and other ornaments. Still very much in use and still distinctly unrelated to European totalitarian political ideologies.
(Unicode: U+262D ☭ HAMMER AND SICKLE) is a communist symbol representing proletarian solidarity between agricultural and industrial workers. It was first adopted during the Russian Revolution at the end of World War I, the hammer representing workers and the sickle representing the peasants.
You, Sir, maybe want to consider changing your name from "Lee Elliot" to "Lee Idiot" as that would be much representative of your character given the inept statement you just made.
And a righteous ideal that could not withstand the human craving for power. The Internationale even hijacked much of the labor movement here in the US. Ralph Chaplin & Ottelie Markholt books are excellent on this topic. Poor Bill Haywood was lured to Stalin’s Russia & we lost him
To be more specific and precise, it's not communism that stands for the Holomodor but the dictatorial application of it by a monster named Stalin and his administration. Somewhat similar to Putin's in some aspects.
How many countless innocents have met their demise under a mission bannered by our stars and bars? I mean, our flag would be just as much one, if not worse. Just sayin'
No but perhaps you should read some American history. I'm glad you took this post as a reason to let out some sort of aggression on a complete stranger for making a valid point. Congratulations, hope you feel better, champ
I have family from Eastern Europe. I fully believe that. In those places that makes sense. Just like the swastika outside of Hindu and Buddhist circles is evil. It is unfortunate when hate ruins a symbol of something good. Makes it stained forever. Hate ruins literally everything.
Comments
Nazis made a hate symbol of the swastika. Israeli Zionists are doing something similar with ✡️.
Its not a hate symbol no matter how much we might hate it
One difference is e.g. that Rome and to some point UK, did the geneocidial crimes in different times, when morality was different.
1/
Anarchism definitely doesn't exist and only a fool would believe that it could.
Used by mass murders calling themselves Communists for sure
https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:soddjyesksavqnsk22c2bc7n/lists/3lbzdoxuett23
And I get it Capitalism sucks balls unless you are a Capitalist. But Soviet style communism is even worse. No illusions of freedoms.
Laughably at least the Capitalist are still bothering to gas light us.
Txt on balcony banner:
“USA Enemy “
am talking about capitalism btw lmao
I think I'm going to send a gift to your friends at the front
https://www.weaponstoukraine.com/kampane/municia
no I don't support the war, stop being racist please
There's even libertarian socialism (my bias) for limited gov't outside of essentials like health, defence, etc.
But every country has the right to defend itself.
Netanyahu is currently doing both.
Yes, Hamas are terrorist savages who need to be stopped. Their citizens are used as human shields ffs.
On the other extreme, you have Israel deliberately targeting civilians, creating unnecessary destruction, giving Hamas lies legitimacy to the citizens in the end.
And it makes me sad to see that.
And sure, Hamas is no better.
Those who suffer in the end are the common Palestinian and the common Israeli.
Israel is in a very dangerous neighborhood and cannot exactly afford to "turn the other cheek"
The systems shouldn’t control us, because we created them lol.
Strengthening democracy and human rights is key to stopping that. Communist and fascist gov’ts (often w/oligarchy) are evil. And people know this.
Socialism is separate too.
It's centred vs communism, which eliminates every individual's rights+freedoms and is essentially late-stage capitalism (corporate control but with one corporation/communist party)
Look at China with concentration camps for muslims (so much for equality), expansionism with Taiwan and the Philippines, the social credit system creating a tiered/unequal society that punishes the bottom, and CAPITALISM too!
-Has historically led to opressive regimes .
- Based on texts interpreted differently, which makes it extremely divisive even within said ideology.
- A big portion of believers focus purely on eastetics which makes it kinda wierd and culty.
- There are more but no more space to
we know yall hate capitalism, communism aren't a better alternative (if you could even consider it an alternative) And even if you DO consider it as an alternative, do not use USSR as an example. It romanticizes USSR.
I'd say using the flag with 24 stars would be in bad taste at the very least and the confederate flag is definitely already regarded as a hate symbol.
The hammer and sickle are in the same realm as the confederate flag and the swastika in my opinion.
They say Marx was a student of Adam Smith.
Adam Smith, considered the founder of capitalism, wrote EXTENSIVELY about how the system must focus on taking care of the poor. It was foundational to his writings.
That's why I said Marx studied Adam Smith.
what is your point?
You're characterization of a criticism of the hammer and sickle as neoliberal shows me that you associate anyone critical of it as a neolib.
When commies want to slur liberals, they call them neoliberals. The word actually has a meaning: it refers to people like Reagan. Therefore, it doesn't fit any modern Democrat.
orwell was literally an anarchist communist who wrote against state communism and the state as a whole
I stayed for the leftist infighting.
Here’s the thing.
People who are confident in their decisions have no reason to justify them.
I think you meant to put a Hamas flag, instead of the Israeli one
Adding to that Israel funded HAMAS because the PLO was too sympathetic and they (Israel) wanted an excuse to continue being genocidal.
How is 80% of gaza destroyed but not 80% of the population?
Btw. the oldest known Swastika is from Ukraine
https://archive.org/details/TheOriginOfTheSwastikaOldestKnownSwastikaFoundInUkraineCa10000BCE
I sympathise with the argument that the Anglosphere should also call the Nazi emblem the hakenkreuz, and reserve swastika for the ancient symbol still used in Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, amongst others.
https://cohna.org/swastika-is-not-hakenkreuz/
Look: the cross, which was a roman method of torturing people to death, was adopted by a new religious group - Christians as a symbol of hail, hope and love,
...
https://medium.com/@darthsidius1985/the-curious-case-of-swastika-and-hakenkreuz-my-independent-investigation-a818d9164cf2
https://en.efhr.eu/2012/02/03/swastika-historical-heritage-of-lithuania/
In 2007 a German! initiative to ban the Swastika EU wide failed, because of unexpected resistance especially from a group nobody had in mind, the quite large Hindu community in the UK, when once upon a time UK was still member of the EU.
https://www.spiegel.de/international/crossed-swords-hindus-against-proposed-eu-swastika-ban-a-460259.html
The Swastika came to the New World with immigrants from the Old World and became/was popular there among Native Americans especially in the South West until in the early 1940's ...
And Siddhartha Gautama better known as the Buddha was also no Nazi ...
https://apnews.com/article/mother-ukraine-monument-soviet-emblem-trident-5c0f509d476835c6ce5e93599a2ec28c
Yes, America has done bad things. America has also not done nearly the amount of bad in the world that the hammer and sickle represented.
Go ask former ussr satellite nations what they think of communism.
Got it. Have you read any Russian history at all?
But it could be seen as oppressive by people who've been affected by corrupted, authoritarian communist regimes since it was used by them.