I think that separating the art from the artist is one of those situations where letting emotions decide is exactly the right way to do it. It's not something that needs to be laboriously reasoned over; if you're mad, let mad win; if you're not, acknowledge harm but don't let guilt ruin joy.
There’s “jerk” and then there’s… other things. This is far closer to the Whedon end of the scale than the Chekov - though honestly so far past that it’s its own end of the scale.
I can get usually there post-mortem. Once they no longer materially benefit. Though I can see how the system or companies that prop up the individual may also be functional and problematic.
I feel like it would work better if the rights of their works were taken away and given publicly, it's harsh especially when you know that anything of there's you get or have bought will have given scum more money
But I get it i can't bring myself to listen to lost prophets either 😬
GO3 is somewhat disconnected now. It is Pratchett green lit, and NG is not doing anything for it from what my research is showing. It is however shortened and ending.
I'm able to do this if the artist is dead, and especially if I know the estate is generally good people. In this case, there's just no way. I can't imagine reading anything he's written and not thinking about all of the sordid details. Wondering how his personal life influences the work. Disgusting.
I am stepping back. I am putting the books away, the way I did when JKR 1st stopped hiding the horrible. I already spent the money. The books brought me years of joy. I need time to decide how to proceed. With JKR, I kept the books, but refused to spend another cent towards her work.
I really enjoyed Good Omens and Sandman. His other stuff I wasn't gaga over. I totally get burning his books tho. It's your space and etc no need to give a spot to a monster.
Not only do I not want to support someone like that, I don't even want to have the appearance of doing so. I don't think I have any of his works in my house, but if I do, I'm burning them.
Having a very hard time coping with good omens and trying to watch the show or read the book without the descriptions of what he’s done flash in my head. What used to bring such joy, and huge special interest and hyper fixation for me, has been making me sick and disgusted. I’m devastated
And I have to admit that I loved The Sandman. A dear friend gave me the books. I met a guy I dated for years because he did a stunning prose performance of Morpheus’ fight with Lucifer. I went to DragonCon as Delirium in a group cosplay. I considered a tattoo.
There will be a lot of people saying they “could always tell” from his writing. If that’s true, fucking great for you. Lots of people couldn’t. Lots of people *met him* and couldn’t. That’s how people like this WORK. You think every monster is obvious, because it’s a monster? Fuck off with that.
Believing every monster MUST be obvious to “count” is part of what put these women in that situation. They themselves didn’t WANT to believe that someone so “nice”, who associated with people who were so “nice”, could be doing what he was. They convinced themselves that THEY must be in the wrong.
I fucking loathe that shit. It’s such a bullshit stance.
There’s always some dumbfuck going “oh well I always hated [artist]” when this happens. great you get to jump on the righteous dickhead bandwagon without ever having any emotional skin in the game good for you.
Separating is easier with someone like lovecraft because he was a man deeply terrified of everything. His racism feels more like a byproduct of his constant terror, plus he's been dead for longer than most people have been ive. Gaimen doesn't have those "benefits". His work is trash now.
I feel like I can (do) with film, maybe because there are so many people involved in creating a film. But with these writers it’s just … ick. I don’t want to read something that came out of the same brain. ☹️
I cried so hard. He was one of my creative idols and Sandman something that forged me as an artist. I haven’t had the strength yet, since they’re such relics of my childhood, but every time I look at my bookshelf, I just want to burn them all.
Would it make you feel better if you did? Not being sarcastic at all—genuinely think of it. If it will, light ‘em up. If not, what would? I haven’t decided yet
It becomes much easier when the artist is no longer around to repeat the stupid shit they think sometimes…
A lot of time their actual art is devoid of the personal foibles because they’re not actually writing about themselves as much as they’re writing outside themselves~
I still have the Harry Potter books. They were a gift from a long time ago. But I haven’t really put any money towards her project since.
I understand that Harry Potter is special to a lot of people, but hearing how the author talks about those different from her has put a sour taste to it .
So I completely understand those you want nothing more to do with her work. Besides a lot of what I like about Harry Potter has come from the fandom separate from what JK has written. In hindsight, the fandom made Harry Potter more magical than it was.
From the sounds of it many of his texts were how he wrote about his actions, undercover of fiction and story; and so the art is just the depravities of the artist in this case.
No retcon, or "I told you so" implied. That shit would be at best annoying.
I'm saying now that we know, as a collective, about it, it is hard to separate it from him because the fact that its more or less supposed to be him is seared into us.
As an artist myself I decided a long time ago that this simply cannot be done. For art to have any merit it must contain the essence of the artist who made it, and when the artist is a piece of shit, the essence of their art is also.
People are complex though. People can have noble aspirations and dreams and treat people in their lives horribly. There are people out there who's lives were drastically improved by art from people who did evil things. Art can come from the best or worst in people, we're not just good or evil.
👏And what about when we don't know anything whatsoever about who made something? Do stop admiring the cave paintings at Lascaux or an anonymous 17th Century poem on the off-chance their creators were a totally arsehole in their personal life? Just in case?
No, I know the context perfectly well. But my point stands that there are many artists whose work survives and is highly valued who we know little or nothing about. I do think, though, that there is a break point some time after someone has died beyond which a more objective evaluation can be made.
And by the way, I'm also not saying that these things cannot be instructive. I think, for example, that the cave paintings you mentioned are generally appreciated more for their anthropological value than strictly their artistic merit, which is fairly limited.
Well, no you don't actually get the context, then. Nobody is claiming we should be able to intuit details about an artist we know nothing about, apart from the content itself. If we did discover that the 17th century poet was a slave owning rapist that should colour our perception of their poetry.
Who can say? How would Harry Potter be different if JKR wasn’t a bigot? Would it exist at all? It would probably contain less veiled antisemitism at the very least, or maybe she would have written something else entirely. I don’t know and it doesn’t matter. Now that I can see it, it’s on me.
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But I get it i can't bring myself to listen to lost prophets either 😬
Will not look forward to GO3.
I had no idea.
Wiped out a chunk of one of the bookshelves.
:(
I cannot separate the two.
https://bsky.app/profile/alexblackwood.bsky.social/post/3lfqrdbzz7k23
I can never look at any of that again.
If you really knew and didn’t say anything, fuck you.
If you’re retconning it now to feel clever at others’ expense, fuck you twice.
There’s always some dumbfuck going “oh well I always hated [artist]” when this happens. great you get to jump on the righteous dickhead bandwagon without ever having any emotional skin in the game good for you.
What a disaster he turned out to be.
Depends on your DM
Let their legacy define them - if it's shit, then it's shit
A lot of time their actual art is devoid of the personal foibles because they’re not actually writing about themselves as much as they’re writing outside themselves~
Sometimes like they’re working through them by literally becoming someone better in ink & character development…
And some are just a flashy fad whose work also ages poorly.
Sad ... so very, very sad ... 😔😥😩😔😥😩😔
I understand that Harry Potter is special to a lot of people, but hearing how the author talks about those different from her has put a sour taste to it .
I'm saying now that we know, as a collective, about it, it is hard to separate it from him because the fact that its more or less supposed to be him is seared into us.
Also, and it pains me a little bit that I have point this out again, but “being an arsehole” is a different kettle of fish than being a serial rapist.
The fact that I may have derived something good from something which is bad at its core is a function of my own intentions and filters.
Wouldn't the consumption of art with an 'evil' essence speak negatively on yourself whether you were aware or not?
It's okay to just say his actions ruined his work for you. It ain't that deep.