I have yet to see much evidence of that. I know people on the left love that she stood up to Trump, but I've never seen it shown where she was flipping actual R voters. Trumpists are in a cult, you can't chip away their supporters.
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Nobody on the left loves that she stood up to Trump. Partisan Democrats who watch MSNBC all day love her for standing up for Trump because TV told them to. But those voters rationalize whatever the Democrats do. It alienated actual left and swing voters.
Well, I’m not sure where to give you evidence since polling is utter bullshit. I agree she didn’t flip people. That wasn’t her role. It was to get the independents and fence sitters. Trump’s cult is consistent. He doesn’t lose many people ever. But he doesn’t gain them either. Liz had little effect.
Blame for Harris' loss aside having respect for Liz Cheney is really dumb of you when her politics are identical to Trump's and she's even personally defended the ideological basis behind project 2025 (because it's literally her father's whole legacy)
I’m not gonna respond to crap like that. If that woman is comparable to Hitler to you, then I’d invite you to study history and geopolitics and well reality!
If Trump is comparable to Hitler (which he is) then so is she. She just happened to pick the short straw in the backstabbing fest that usually precedes a fascist takeover.
Liz Cheney voted with Trump 98% of the time. She has repeatedly pushed right wing lies with language intent of provoking violence. It’s really something you’re taking offense that someone called Liz Cheney a fascist name. What’s a term to use that you’d be okay with?
You lost your ass with base voters across the board. Exit polling is pretty good at establishing patterns cycle to cycle and what they show is Dem base didn’t turn out. Which makes sense since Dems are gonna finish around 7 million votes down from 2020 total.
I couldn’t agree more with this take. I have yet to see a winning election that is based on subtraction rather than addition and based on the laws passed under Biden to help marginalized people (where Trump gained voters), it’s less about policy/facts and more about how people feel. Depressing
She had maybe the strongest effect. Depending on how you define effect. Did you see any Democrats (the kind that bleed blue) siding with the GOP to promote Trump? She tabled her life long beliefs to try and help us. Let’s agree she sure as hell didn’t hurt anything by joining us. 🤷♀️
I think ultimately we want a fighter, someone to go to at it for us. So much of politics is about feelings, and the thing that Maga voters vote on is feelings. We want politicians that we can feel are fighting for our material conditions to improve.
There's no way however to rate their sauce lower than Trump's sauce so that faulty logic simply doesn't hold any sauce at all in explaining the general election result.
Sadly, for now we need to let go of trying to elect a woman. We were burnt both times when we tried, and ended up with this 🤡. It will happen, but not yet.
I think it’s a horrible shame Kamala didn’t have a chance. I think she would have been a groundbreaking leader in so many ways. But a tiny majority voted for American Carnage 2.0 and that’s exactly what we’re going to get.
Kamala never should have been the candidate... Bernie wasn't elected because he is far left. Biden was primary selected the first time because he's a centrist. Dems needed another primary, Joe stayed too long. Keep thinking your ID politics wasn't an issue. Social change takes generations...
she did have a chance. She has massive momentum when she was tagged in and up until she chose her VP.
"Weird" was the most effective dem campaign tactic since Obama, but the consultants put a muzzle on Walz and had Kamala run to the right, and proclaim that she would be just like Biden.
Yeah, the same establishment Dem strategists that cost Clinton the election in ‘16 handed down THAT bit of sound advice.
I don’t know if we could’ve called them “weird” all the way to the White House, but “We’re not going back” was a slogan for the moment and for the ages. But they killed it, too.
They lost the momentum when they started going after Trump rather than talking about what she was gonna do. People loved the joy and the weird. The Trump attacking didn’t work nearly as well as their own personalities did. Unscripted, Walz was great. Kamala being herself was great.
I agree that they seemingly put a muzzle on Walz, who had been effective early in the campaign as a feisty but likable attack dog. But then I noticed a change at the VP debate where they made him go all wonkish and kumbayya with Vance instead of calling Vance on his B.S. That was a turning point.
I’m an independent cus I can’t stand the DNC. It started w/Al Franken. DNC is a lot of talk. They don’t have a vagina. They turned the other cheek. Try to be the good guy. Look at us. We don’t fight back. We don’t insult that’s what I did like abt VP Harris she talked smack at the orange turd.
I think Harris was great, but she needed to have more. She needed more time, she needed to speak perfectly every time she opened her mouth, she needed to support Gaza and Israel, embrace Biden and reject Biden. Oh, and probably not be a woman. Her opponent spouted off nonsense but he wasn't a woman.
Much deeper than that. Dems still don’t get the fact many Americans want to actively burn it all down. Everything is now a fight in daily life. Whether you make $30,000 a year or $300,00. You either fight or you are victimized. Trump was right about the “rigged” system he bellowed about.
The tie-up with Liz Cheney was a principled effort to reach across the proverbial aisle and get through the partisan political reflexes we’ve lived through forever, and to do it with someone carving out her identity as a conservative, separate from her father, one who’s not breathing the usual fire.
I don’t think it was going to be that formal or official, but it was refreshing just the same to see the effort being made. Politics doesn’t have to be bipolar.
A respectful dissent. Yes, much of politics is about the feels, but there’s also a need for voters’ ability (or their willingness) to step outside the shadow of their expectations. Kamala called on us as a nation to do that, with qualifications, courage and joy. We dropped the ball, not Kamala. 1/
I disagree, when you are desperate for a change in candidate and one finally is given to us, it's patently obvious that you shouldn't run with "I will be hardly any different from the guy you didn't like "
I know, that unforced error didn’t help. But that was at the very start. Kamala went on to explain in detail how she would have been profoundly different from Biden, and she laid out policy ideas with more specifics than Trump could dream of.
Yes, but.... If media had reported Biden/Harris well, people would have seen it. I saw a TON in progressive left media.
The folks Biden nominated and put in leadership positions were outstanding! The fights for unions and forgiving student debt, the money for climate change in the infra bills....
AOC is in no way qualified to be President. Maybe one day. And she’d never get the support of the Democrats because the party as a whole isn’t progressive and people need to wake up to that reality.
The qualifications to be president are being a natural born citizen at least 35 years of age. She is both. And then getting on ballots & winning the electoral college. I would vote for AOC in a heartbeat. Obama got a lot of the "he's not qualified" chatter. On Twitter, back in the day.
She is qualified if Trump can be president - yes not saying the Democrat party would support it but that’s their problem I think she would do great maybe that is more what people want
Let's be clear here. People are sexist. They don't want a woman as President. Women have dealt with this our whole lives. Those of us that are older have experienced it first-hand.
I agree. If 🟠💩 had won the popular vote, but lost the Electoral College, they would be working on that as I type. But as long as the Electoral College helps the minority, it will be hard to get rid of.
No, we don't. We continue to fight for equality. It is exhausting. Just ask me. I am in my late 60s and have been fighting for this my entire adult life, but that is what we do. We pass the ERA. We challenge people that call us man-haters, as that is not the truth. We challenge the stereotypes.
What we don't do is sit around & hypothesize about reasons that women that are running for POTUS didn't win when we don't address, first, the main reason. Too many people, including all of the talking heads on media, are willing to say a black woman, but not just woman. Obama won. He was black.
That is what alot of liberals don't understand about the election. People felt the economy was bad because of inflation. People blamed Biden. Kamala was part of his administration so she gets the blame as well. Plus she said she would do the same things.
Which is the crazy part, because Biden was doing the right things. There wasn't a chance of the sort of instant effect people wanted, but a lot of US voters are little more than children, in terms of their comprehension of how Congress works, specifically the compromise aspect.
73% of Americans no longer believe they can afford to purchase a car. 48% of new car shoppers budget is $35k compared to the average price $48k according to Edmunds.
Whether voters know it or not, wealth inequality is still their #1 issue. Sorry but no amount of “muhhh GoLdMaN SaChS” is going to pull turnout, especially from the house less under 40’s
People felt the economy was bad because prices went up and wages didn't increase enough to counter it. People who apparently skipped or didn't have a class on the power of the presidency blame the current administration. It's why we keep flipping between parties every few years.
I know. It's frustrating.... Also, people have no clue how bad it could have been!
But seriously, inflation was worldwide, and folks seem to have no idea.... PLUS the people who think it was GREAT under Trump, casually forgetting the 14.5% unemployment and the 5000 dead per day at the tail end.
The independents and fence sitters aren’t the moderate republicans.
There are very few true moderate republicans left.
The undecideds and independents were on the left of Dems but her campaign legit said they didn’t need the left
This is it. Liz was supposed to bring Republicans with her ... But in the end it was only the Democrats that watched her on TV who liked her. The cult was not going to change sides.
I still wonder if the goal was just to discourage Republican turn out rather than to get them to vote Democrat. I don’t really know how you’d check that though.
Voting is recorded and public record, (not who you vote for). Someone could count all the Republicans and Democrats who voted in 2020 and stayed home this year, for a start
Harris lost votes among traditional Dem demographics, so in hindsight the whole idea of pulling moderate Republicans rather than shoring up flaky Democrats was misguided from the start.
So is the lead democrat on the banking committee hosting Andreeson at a luxury resort crypto conference doing it to appeal to centrists? More outreach?
The individuals you mentioned are crackpots. And I’m not really sure any of them were ever truly on the left. The Muslims just flat out acted against their own self interest. I’m sure when Trump takes office, it won’t take them a week to regret that choice.
That's just conjecture and name-calling. You may despise them, but Musk is not a crackpot.
This attitude is the precise reason why we were trolled with Matt Gaetz (no one w common sense took seriously) as an AG. And yet so many folks played right into the rage they hoped to elicit.
Musk is an on the spectrum Bond villain who wouldn’t mind seeing a few billion people culled so he can rebuild the world in his image. That’s really what all the oligarchs have to be for. Because they know how dangerous MAGA and other extremist movements are and they’re helping them.
"The Left?" The Democratic Party is not synonymous with leftism in any classical philosophical sense. Tulsi Gabard and Elmo? You may as well count Ronald Reagan, Strom Thurman and Wendel Wilkie with your group of discontented Dems who switched.
Okay, so what causes such a dramatic shift beyond discontentment?
Cynical reasons like 'grifting' have their place, but many voted for (voting records) & supported ($) Dem ideas/candidates prior to 2016, then fled the party.
If you mean rank-and-file voters, I have no idea, and won't until non-partisan quantitative analysts test their sundry hypotheses. But I won't be confusing the public for high-profile nutjobs like RJK Jr., and long-time conservative Russian assets like Tulsi Gabbard.
Musk was blue because the people he thought were cool were. Gabbard wanted to win an election, Rogan who the fuck knows, I haven't paid attention to him since Newsradio
I strongly agree with this. Pretty much no one has viewed Gabbard as seriously left wing for at least six years now. She got 1% in the democratic primaries.
liberal politics is incompatible with puritanism, and democrats are theocratic puritans now. But they said worse things about Hillary, with absolutely no evidence at all, so I'm sure whatever the cops said about him is exaggerated.
There are tons of Never Trumpers who love Cheney and who are/were Republicans. (see the entire staff of The Bulwark). But those people were already voting for Harris.
Whether Cheney flipped voters is a fair question, but just wanted to add that distinction.
Dem polling firm Blueprint looked at Nikki Haley voters as a potential bloc for Harris. Liz Cheney had negative favorability with Haley voters (-9) & they liked Dick Cheney better (+8).
Interesting stat but -9 approval only means 55% disliked her. Thats 45% of them who liked her and potentially could have been persuaded to vote for Harris.
Liz Cheney is popular only with MSNBC binge-watching Dems. Her rating among Republicans is 60% unfavorable, 12% favorable. Harris lost Republicans 95-4 (worse than Biden). Campaigning with Cheney measurably hurt Harris with independents. It was a predictably failed strategy.
Not buying any of this argument. Please present evidence that Dems loved Liz but Independents didn’t. “Republicans” are now MAGA 100% so of course they hate Liz and will not support Dems. The “I would have voted for Harris if not for Cheney” crowd is microscopic and not worth contemplating.
But that’s sort of missing the point surely? If she was popular with 12% of republicans and they’d voted Democrat or stayed at home then Harris would have won. I don’t think that happened, but if it had it would have been meaningful
I mean, that seems to be the most likely interpretation. On the other hand we don’t actually know. She could have been in line to get 2% after Biden’s term, and late outreach may have improved those numbers.
campaigning w/Cheney while defending an American Israel genocide compounded the disgust many in the base felt. Many who are still pissed about Iraq war criminals walking free. If only Dems could have their dream base of Reagan voters. When will Dems learn Reagan voters were always Trumpers in wait.
well, then you must’ve not been looking in the right places cause I saw him in many different states in particular Florida Republicans for Harris! Trump talked about it. He was cheated. I think he learned how to cheat and we were cheated. I don’t believe the result there’s no fucking way
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Harris does not visit.
Both Jill Stein and DJT visit. Both (emptily) promise to end the war.
Harris hugs Liz Cheney, visits Ripon WI and says she will do "nothing" different from Biden.
What effect does that make?
You simply don't have to hand it to lady Hitler
How about Gavin for 2028?
"Weird" was the most effective dem campaign tactic since Obama, but the consultants put a muzzle on Walz and had Kamala run to the right, and proclaim that she would be just like Biden.
I don’t know if we could’ve called them “weird” all the way to the White House, but “We’re not going back” was a slogan for the moment and for the ages. But they killed it, too.
Her momentum was strong and growing. I miss her rallies terribly.
I think it was the centrists who stayed home.
Pelosi's refusal to hold a primary set her up to fail IMO.
The folks Biden nominated and put in leadership positions were outstanding! The fights for unions and forgiving student debt, the money for climate change in the infra bills....
(Also JIT supply chains caused the issues, so really, we only have the 1980s to blame.)
FFS, WaPo FINALLY had an article this week on why egg prices have been inflated for TWO YEARS (avian flu).
But seriously, inflation was worldwide, and folks seem to have no idea.... PLUS the people who think it was GREAT under Trump, casually forgetting the 14.5% unemployment and the 5000 dead per day at the tail end.
The independents and fence sitters aren’t the moderate republicans.
There are very few true moderate republicans left.
The undecideds and independents were on the left of Dems but her campaign legit said they didn’t need the left
Harris campaigner:
The left is so insignificant, we don’t need the left vote.
Also Harris campaign: how could the left do this to us??
https://youtu.be/-hGY1pVlnnA?si=gRa2hQJdRsGgeH8U
The left lost Rogan, Musk, Gabbard and many Muslim Americans who were once true blue. How? Why?
This attitude is the precise reason why we were trolled with Matt Gaetz (no one w common sense took seriously) as an AG. And yet so many folks played right into the rage they hoped to elicit.
Cynical reasons like 'grifting' have their place, but many voted for (voting records) & supported ($) Dem ideas/candidates prior to 2016, then fled the party.
It contributed to the loss in a profound way.
Musk was blue because the people he thought were cool were. Gabbard wanted to win an election, Rogan who the fuck knows, I haven't paid attention to him since Newsradio
these people weren't "true blue"
Wasn't Gabbard a lifelong Dem until Hillary calling her a Russian asset?
If you haven't paid attention to Rogan, probably time to start. He has the biggest audience in the world.
Same as Russell Brand
You know, a moron.
Whether Cheney flipped voters is a fair question, but just wanted to add that distinction.
among Dems:
55% favorable, 19% unfavorable
among Independents:
24% favorable, 36% unfavorable
among Republicans:
12% favorable, 60% unfavorable
source: YouGov/Economist, Sept. 8-10