given the current environment, continuing to be vehemently anti-crypto is borderline if not fully transphobic. i know, surprise surprise, not every use of crypto is for money making scams
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Crypto was most legitimate as a currency when it was used almost explicitly for black market transactions, and it can still be legitimate for those uses.
I think there's a meaningful distinction to be made between saying "crypto should be illegal" and "crypto as it currently exists is an enviromentally destructive tax shelter and speculation bubble for a group of increasingly powerful finance bros trying to destroy civilization as we know it".
yeah this is it. I fuckin hate hate hate hate hate crypto.
did I have to compromise that value in order to achieve something I wanted more? absolutely.
still hate it.
Yeah. Crypto is legitimately a neat tech which can be a lifeline for people who, for one reason or another, are put in danger by using more traditional currencies to live. This thread is a good reminder of that.
It's a shame that the loud morons treat it like penny stocks.
It's disgusting to me to see people saying don't buy HRT w crypto because it will make you Impure. I guess in their ideal world the socialist central planning supercomputer (does NOT use AI) doesn't permit financial censorship and will provide payments infra to anyone. Okay well, back in reality...
i'm by no means disagreeing, but unfortunately the state still has powers to seize shipments. i know HRT can get seized coming in through swedish borders, for example. had it happen to friends.
uncontrollable currency isn't always enough when shipments are controlled.
Yeah. I am still anti the scamming that surrounds crypto, and the environmental damage, but it can absolutely be a life saver for people who're being persecuted.
I think your mentions will feature a bunch of cis people who've never thought about that aspect of crypto. They don't have to. Yet.
My issue is that the currencies that are being propped up are the most energy intensive and possibly inefficient. It sort of feels like anti-tech stuff.
Ideally in tech, we’d go with the most efficient and ideally power ideal. Right now, it feels like gold 2.0. Not bad, just not interesting.
Yup! If countries were sensible and prescribed hormones to anyone that signed a waiver, then maybe a case against could be made. Unfortunately ignorance, cruelty, and a complete disregard for mental health have forced folks to explore other means, including validating crypto, just to survive.
There's very real reasons for people to hate cryptocurrencies. Plenty of trans people that would agree with me. It's not the anti-fiat that people claim it is. And it has detrimental impacts on the environment.
for anyone else who is also cis reading this: cryptocurrency can be used to purchase HRT and some cryptocurrencies are untraceable, providing a safe way to guarantee access to life saving medicine
and that’s just the main reason for right now. if things get worse, it could be good for trans people to have alternate currencies, whether that be precious metals or cryptocurrency or whatever.
banking apps that use USD are subject to banking regulation and law that could shut trans people out
Been a long time since I mined dogecoin so I might be misinformed, but it seemed like the easier ways to gather up crypto have gotten some government attention.
It is infamously prone to pump and dumps by prominent streamers, and the current administration is only encouraging this. And even with regulation, I don't believe it can be considered anymore serious than any stock, which is also prone to manipulation.
yeah and el salvador did it i think to steal all the money, they used a custodial wallet which means bukele just has it all more or less. its just that crypto payments can also be used to get around governments that steal money by hyperinflation. they do have uses but the other folks are right too
My initial uninformed reaction was that of surprise and confusion, I do consider myself anti-crypto. But yeah, seeing the reasoning has me strongly reconsidering that position
there's a difference in using cryptocurrency for its original intended purpose (as an anonymous, private currency) and its techbro investor "purpose" (crypto is an appalling investment, and should not be held for longer than it takes to pay for an item)
regarding the environmental impacts, this very much depends on if you are using a proof-of-work coin, or a proof-of-stake coin. a proof-of-stake coin uses a fraction of the energy. you can eat your cake and have it too - selecting proof-of-stake coins for this purpose
cryptocurrency, AS A CURRENCY, is actually a very useful way to exchange value anonymously, and i find it deeply regrettable that its reputation has been harmed by techbro gamblers and venture capitalists hopping on a hype train
At some point you're gonna need an on-ramp (buy crypto) and that's where this purported anonymity can and will be attacked. Meanwhile all your crypto transactions are on a *public ledger* because that's how the tech works. Definitely possible to somewhat cover your tracks but that gets tricky fast.
This true for Bitcoin and etherium but there are other systems like zcash that try to do better about anonymity.
Even with a perfect anonymity of the transaction they still have to get you a physical product and that is the most frequent weak point. Catch the seller, catch the clients.
Wikipedia: "On June 8, 2020, Chainalysis added support for Zcash to their Chainalysis Reactor and "Know Your Transaction" (KYT) products. They noted that less than 1% of ZEC transactions were completely shielded, with the sender, receiver and amount all hidden,
enabling Chainalysis to provide partial information for over 99% of ZEC activity.
(...)
In September 2023, a mining pool named ViaBTC had seized control of over half the hashing power on Zcash. (…) a 51% attack where they could potentially manipulate transactions and harm the network"
Ughhhhhhh this is so rock and a shitty place.
Can I be anti crypto except for that and overall just be pro trans to the point of getting hormones not being illegal?
fwiw i think the thing that’s going over some people’s heads is my use of the word “vehemently” here. you can definitely still be mad at nerds for doing dumb shit with nfts and shit coins
that's a pretty bold claim, hailey, but i can see how crypto's accessibility might be a lifeline for marginalized groups, including trans individuals, in terms of financial freedom and acquiring life-saving medication.
this is a category error. We need some kind of electronic cash, not cryptocurrencies. Even Twint works fine for the homeless and drug addicts though. I guess Venmo is similar but I'm not sure
how exactly are you planning to implement some kind of electronic cash? because unless you're willing to rely on established financial institutions your implementation will basically be identical to a cryptocurrency. and for the use case specified relying on govt and banks is evidently not an option
i hope one day crypto critics will get the ability to search google instead of just regurgitating the exact same links regardless of their accuracy or applicability to their current discussion
I certainly won't. I don't judge anyone for using it if they need to use it to survive, but "you're transphobic if you oppose crypto" is a bullshit argument.
Name one alternative that exists right now. Like, literally anything. You can opine all day about what *should* exist, and probably most people here would agree with you, but in the world that *does* exist, crypto allows trans people to buy HRT even when banks and governments try to criminalise it
Yes I have for myself and at times others that otherwise couldn’t access it. This doesn’t sound like a topic you’re familiar with and should be speaking on
quoted post is tangentially related at best considering there are zero-knowledge chains and estrogen is not likely to become a controlled substance since there'd be too much collateral damage
i saw it and pretty much agree with what you said. also fwiw this is mostly a bait post (that i do believe in though) because im tired of mild discourses on my tl about like will stancil and wanted to change it up
i think its a much better discussion point and theres certainly a lot of variables at play w it. that being said, i am not a fan of letting cis ppl know about the details lmao
That's silly. It's very good that trans people can get access to HRT outside the regulated drug marketplace, but that doesn't mean that believing that drug regulations are a net good is borderline if not fully transphobic.
so close! it's an analogy showing how whether something is constraining or facilitative of someone getting HRT does not by itself determine whether it is transphobic.
You're right. You have to look at the present situation, and whether the policy changes you're advocating would impose a serious problem on people that would justify an exemption.
Ergo, being vehemently against crypto is transphobic.
Small international money transfers for restricted goods is a problem that was solved long before crypto! For the longest time after the US online poker ban, people would sign up to websites by paying over WU or MoneyGram. Online pharmacies (and now poker rooms) use crypto because it's cheaper.
why put your HRT purchase on a publicly-auditable ledger? I agree with wanting to preserve HRT access but I feel like jumping to "healthcare on the blockchain" is a poor idea. Most crypto isn't untraceable! unless you're using like Zcash or Monero there will be a public record of your transaction!
are there places that only take crypto? if so, which tokens? I'm super sketched out by putting data this sensitive on a blockchain. seems risky, given the operators of such databases!
do we want Coinbase or Kraken knowing you're trans?
it just seems like you REALLY need to be careful & know what you're doing to make crypto work for this purpose. i stress i don't inherently oppose anonymous payments, just crypto as a panacea for tech/finance issues
PoS is not as secure, enabling one individual to secretly buy a majority of the supply and take control of the network. This is called a sybil attack. If done correctly it is impossible to detect and, with true PoS networks, impossible to reverse.
I am aware of the distinction, yes. However, I don't think for any large-scale crypto token (e.g. ETH2) a sybil attack is a reasonable thing to be afraid of.
PoW has real, lasting harm in the form of its energy cost. PoS has a hypothetical attack that would be unreasonable for a very large network
Considering the size and concentration of the ETH presale relative to the emissions from years of proof-of-work it's entirely possible (I daresay probable) a sybil attack has already occurred.
These "large scale crypto tokens" still have vastly smaller marketshares than single companies.
is literally anyone getting shit for using crypto for this in particular tho? cuz like, i've helped a lot of people with it and have not once had anyone get angry with me over this
a while back i (and many others here) got yelled at for explaining that there are legit uses for bitcoin by a significantly large user base. its pretty insane.
more than you'd expect (that said, people who need actual privacy and don't see it as a speculation game will be talking a lot less in public about it)
Everything you can exchange cryptocurrency for used to be bought using cash, and there's absolutely nothing stopping anyone from doing the same now with cash that doesn't also stop cryptocurrency.
I think it's best to look at this from the angle of access issues creating a situation where the internet funny-money is necessary to use, rather than the funny-money itself being good for allowing people to do so. It's just a bandaid for a bigger problem of HRT access
Sure but unless we get rid of money & states there will always be legitimate use cases for non-traceable internet commerce. And we're pretty far off from that world
There's no reason getting healthcare should require Faustian bargains with guys who spend gigawatts of fossil energy on worthless GPU-running operations, and it requiring their fake money sometimes isn't really a point in their favor but a point against global trans healthcare
monero is kinda cool cuz it's built in a way that specifically disincentivizes this downside you mentioned and is overall relatively stable as a currency (relative to other cryptocurrencies of course)
I thought Monero was still proof of work? The privacy features are cool but some googling suggests it uses around 184 gigawatt hours of electricity per year, which seems relatively heavy.
I'm hoping someone eventually creates a privacy coin that is proof of stake so it doesn't burn so much power.
I'll 2nd this. There's just too much bad press around crypto to lead with it. Leading with the problem (dying or using crypto to buy life saving medicine/raws because it's your only option) should work better. Not always, but some folks are too busy parroting to grasp the gravity of the situation.
It was phrased as "bitcoin has to be used by some people to get hrt" and people got raked over the coals for saying it. Doll rememebers it and people simply didnt believe the statement.
i was more against it when there looked like there might actually be real progress for trans people but then i learned more about how uneven trans healthcare is even when you have a doctor prescribing and everything started getting More Transphobic. i learned! other people can too!
imo, people only view it through the lens of a very poor and manipulated investment vehicle, and are ignorant to its usage for marginalized people to stay alive
the untraceability is marketed like okay fine but i don't understand how people buy it in a way that a government couldn't track it because at the end of the day you do need to do it using a bank account (as far as i know)
Let me think about this for a moment. It has uses for our community, but then makes the customs agent a major hazard and villain to where one seized package means prison under things like the Comstock Act or other similar laws.
I've made this exact point before in connection to all sorts of marginalized groups, usually to deaf ears. Cryptocurrency is far from perfect or even good, but it's a hell of a lot better than the legacy financial system for those who can't use said system for whatever reason.
Always tickles me when someone pulls the "but only drug dealers use it" as if buying drugs is somehow ethically worse than the 50+ years my government has spent using the "War on Drugs" as a pretext to massively expand police militarization and prison privatization.
"People who are vehemently, uncompromisingly opposed to the Death Star are transphobic because done people can only get HRT through the imperial health benefit"
I'm not saying this is equivalent, this is a rhetorical device
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did I have to compromise that value in order to achieve something I wanted more? absolutely.
still hate it.
It's a shame that the loud morons treat it like penny stocks.
Feels like most crypto booster are interested in the speculation these days but I get that there are other uses that matter.
if i use crypto i'm the one who benefits because i can make transactions that aren't subject to the whims of governments
uncontrollable currency isn't always enough when shipments are controlled.
I think your mentions will feature a bunch of cis people who've never thought about that aspect of crypto. They don't have to. Yet.
Ideally in tech, we’d go with the most efficient and ideally power ideal. Right now, it feels like gold 2.0. Not bad, just not interesting.
I have a bridge for sale. Cheap!
banking apps that use USD are subject to banking regulation and law that could shut trans people out
Been a long time since I mined dogecoin so I might be misinformed, but it seemed like the easier ways to gather up crypto have gotten some government attention.
Those aren't the only ways.
Because that's what trans folks use crypto for. If HRT is outlawed in your area, you can't use a credit card to pay for it
That’s the actually harmful part
crypto is used far more to fleece people than to protect anyone
you are 100% right but also i don't want to just delete it, but yeah
The UAE, US and China are the top government holders of Bitcoin.
I hate crypto bros, but this is an extremely valid use case that I support, but never considered before because it never occurred to me.
Like if you buy HRT there people are going to know
Even with a perfect anonymity of the transaction they still have to get you a physical product and that is the most frequent weak point. Catch the seller, catch the clients.
1/2
(...)
In September 2023, a mining pool named ViaBTC had seized control of over half the hashing power on Zcash. (…) a 51% attack where they could potentially manipulate transactions and harm the network"
Okay, I just need the explanation of how that would be transphobic
lifesaving for many
Can I be anti crypto except for that and overall just be pro trans to the point of getting hormones not being illegal?
https://unu.edu/press-release/un-study-reveals-hidden-environmental-impacts-bitcoin-carbon-not-only-harmful-product
all your id documents are now invalid
oops now your bank seized the funds because of suspected fraud
good luck paying a lawyer to fix this
https://bsky.app/profile/lizthegrey.com/post/3lncgev74w22x
Cash has less of an audit trail than blockchain, just saying.
Ergo, being vehemently against crypto is transphobic.
do we want Coinbase or Kraken knowing you're trans?
I take issue with proof-of-work (e.g. BTC), since it requires a bunch of energy for literally zero reason.
If it was, like, protein folding, that'd be one thing, but mining Bitcoin is a waste of energy and a waste of water
PoS is not as secure, enabling one individual to secretly buy a majority of the supply and take control of the network. This is called a sybil attack. If done correctly it is impossible to detect and, with true PoS networks, impossible to reverse.
PoW has real, lasting harm in the form of its energy cost. PoS has a hypothetical attack that would be unreasonable for a very large network
These "large scale crypto tokens" still have vastly smaller marketshares than single companies.
my gf did the same
I'm hoping someone eventually creates a privacy coin that is proof of stake so it doesn't burn so much power.
People have been burned by the ~10 years of scams and grifters, but I’m sure there’s still good somewhere in there.
People at the bottom aren't to blame for all that harm, and deserve to get needs met, yeah.
but that doesn't justify supporting the system itself
I'm not saying this is equivalent, this is a rhetorical device