Alternatively, mens liberation is for men and a natural ally of feminism against the patriarchy because the patriarchy isn't for men it's for patriarchs. - ThreadSky

tznkai.bsky.social • 1 day ago

Alternatively, mens liberation is for men and a natural ally of feminism against the patriarchy because the patriarchy isn't for men it's for patriarchs.

Reposted from Leonid Baezhnev

Feminism Is For Men Too

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tznkai.bsky.social•1 day ago

I draw the distinction because its meaningful to me personally, it provides an escape hatch for some folks who need it for whatever reason, and I think it avoids potential problems where men either become rival constituents of feminism or are permanently relegated to a secondary client status.

tznkai.bsky.social•1 day ago

Being a secondary client isn't inherently a bad thing, if you're actually okay with it, just like being a secondary audience of a TV show isn't a bad thing until you make it one.

People do tend to make it a problem tho. Example in chief being the Bronies.

tznkai.bsky.social•1 day ago

If you're somehow not aware Bronies were then teenaged through twenties men who were fans of the show My Little Friendship is Magic for the simple reason that the show is really good. Also the internet lets people form an identity out of just about anything. Of course MLP:FiM is for young girls.

tznkai.bsky.social•1 day ago

Some Bronies got an entitlement problem, which, yeah young men and media where have we seen this before, but mostly the community seemed to Get It. Unfortunately their mere collective existence created a problem. A cognitohazard for any girl searching for MLP fan art online for example.

tznkai.bsky.social•1 day ago

I am suggesting there are analogous problems when it comes to ideological movements. It's hard to not make a thing that is meaningful to you about you, and even when you're successful it creates tensions. So instead we fotm smaller more focused groups that can cooperate. Coalitions, if you will.

selectstarman.bsky.social•1 day ago

Bronies seem like dudes who should dads/uncles

eleanor.lockhart.contact•1 day ago

I do dislike the term "feminism". don't really have a good way around this except saying that in my mind,feminism is an area of study /scholarship that is kind of awkwardly named

like if we were drawing these fields up from the bottom, I feel like it'd be tempting to call feminism "gender ideology"

eleanor.lockhart.contact•1 day ago

like, feminist theory has used "gender ideology" to mean, basically, the opposite of what the right/terfs use it to mean right now, but really I feel like "we need to get to the bottom of how gender functions ideologically" is what all reformist programs concerned with gender deal with

tznkai.bsky.social•1 day ago

Yeah one of the criticisms younger me had of feminism was that it blended activism and academic study in a way I found extremely unhelpful. I'm more moderate about that now, but I think the fundamental tension is still there.

tznkai.bsky.social•1 day ago

Something extremely important is happening with gender. Our societies have warped themselves around gender in ways that are not, can not, be explained by mere physiological differentiation. It should be studied.

tznkai.bsky.social•1 day ago

And to Ellie's point, it's perhaps a little weird that the concept of the "disposability of [young] men" is part of an academic field called feminism.

ohdeerthermos.bsky.social•1 day ago

I think an issue we run into is that many people still hold very bioessentialist views and it's not incompatible with *hand waves* feminism in the public consciousness. So non-conforming stuff ends up exceptions for many intellectually rather than the rule

noghiri.bsky.social•1 day ago

i think this is going to get even more fraught as groups that practice gender theology begin to exist

wanderlib.bsky.social•1 day ago

That debate is extremely old.

Like, minimum of a century, but also going back to the creation of the Society of Friends and the founding of Portsmouth, Rhode Island.

converselina.bsky.social•1 day ago

what's wrong with the academy's move towards queer theory to encompass and broaden feminist theory into a workable set of constructs with which to engage academically with the concepts of "sex," "sexuality," and "gender"

that's the field that studies, for instance, ideological impositions of gender

mrose.ink•1 day ago

Rereading WicDiv right now, and been thinking a lot about Woden’s observation that patriarchy screws everyone over because “patriarchy isn’t rule by men; it’s rule by fathers.”

mrose.ink•1 day ago

He’s a completely odious character (at least at that point in the story—haven’t finished, so no idea if he gets a redemption arc) but he does have a beautiful stopped clock monologue about patriarchy.

ducksfortheduckgod.bsky.social•1 day ago

Yeah also I think it does materially affect the focus of feminism in ways that lead to less attention going towards harms towards men and boys

It’s not a complaint—focus in activism is good, actually! But the right trade off is still a trade off

airshipchronos.bsky.social•1 day ago

K, have you read the WICKED AND THE DEVINE?

tznkai.bsky.social•1 day ago

Nope!

airshipchronos.bsky.social•1 day ago

Feel like I've mentioned this before but a character literally makes this point.

tznkai.bsky.social•1 day ago

I probably stole it through pop cultural osmosis

airshipchronos.bsky.social•1 day ago

I'm not sure how big WICDIV is tho, even if it was big enough in comics.

airshipchronos.bsky.social•1 day ago

"patriarchy isn't rule of men, it's rule of *fathers*".

tznkai.bsky.social•1 day ago

*nerd glasses push* actually it's rule of _grand_fathers

pseud0nym.bsky.social•1 day ago

This is a “nerd glasses fracture my skull” moment, but “rule by fathers” makes more sense, as that describes the atomic structure of the system. The semi-feudal family system emerges from the combinations of those paternal relationships, not the other way around.

airshipchronos.bsky.social•1 day ago

(Also once again why FURY ROAD is so good. The harm to men is shown very directly.)

littlebiggler.bsky.social•1 day ago

#Masculinism

I am not a feminist. I am a #Masculinist

fwordleproblems.bsky.social•1 day ago

I got in trouble yesterday for saying this means I shouldn't have to shovel the sidewalk lol. We're never as hilarious as we think we are when posting at speed.

whatthelightcando.bsky.social•1 day ago

r/menslib is explicitly pro feminist and anti-patriarchy and it sucks that they have to keep explaining that

meh333.bsky.social•1 day ago

There must be a cooties escape hatch.

whatthelightcando.bsky.social•1 day ago

Building an exact replica of James Bond's Aston Martin, except there's a cootie annihilation device in case you start caring about your date

meh333.bsky.social•1 day ago

Ok, now cryloling and picturing Pussy Galore ejector seat.

sameoldstory.co•1 day ago

I think the feminist project can do a lot of *good* for men but sentiments like this one (from that thread) make me pretty weary of “feminism is/should be for men”

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