About a 10th of the number of Ukrainian refugee children state schools took in without any panicked coverage. Such nonsense. - ThreadSky

samfr.bsky.social • 59 days ago

About a 10th of the number of Ukrainian refugee children state schools took in without any panicked coverage.

Such nonsense.

Reposted from Peter Foster

There are more than 10m children in school in the UK…but, per Times, 3,000 might move to state sector because of VAT rise…so Whitehall is “braced” 😲😲😲

Says a lot about UK media bubble, the way this story is reported.

You pay VAT on luxuries. Private schooling is that.

Comments

jim.chat•57 days ago

tbf - the schools that will collapse will be the sen schools, not the luxury schools.

any big school with a decent capital budget is getting a MASSIVE windfall in back-dated VAT reclaim + has wealthy, foreign students, parents or scholarship trust funds to counter the rise

so poorly thought thru

jim.chat•57 days ago

I should qualify that the reclaim scheme is adjusted over time

… but still … the net effect of the VAT change for big schools with decent capital budgets massively offsets the VAT impact and potential IMPROVES cash flow for a few years if retrospective reclaims outweigh vat payments

jim.chat•57 days ago

… little SEN schools with financially struggling parents, low capital budgets and children who would struggle in the mainstream sector be damned.

** It’s a poorly thought thru knee-jerk inverted snobbery change that only harms those who need support and actually benefits the most wealthy. **

smkali.bsky.social•57 days ago

I don’t understand why people care so much about fees possibly increasing after a tax, but so little about the increase before the tax. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-charts-that-shows-how-private-school-fees-have-exploded-a7023056.html

jim.chat•57 days ago

well - that stat kinda makes my point.

it covers ~50% of those schools impacted. the top 50%, 50 of which had formed a price-fixing cartel back in the early 2000’s.

it ignores the other ~50% of smaller indi schools that offer support not provided by the state to parents who can’t afford the rise.

smkali.bsky.social•56 days ago

But why was there barely a peep from anyone during 20 years of skyrocketing prices? I just think it’s weird to be cool about schools price gouging parents but then furious if some of that money goes to roads & hospitals

jamesbowes01.bsky.social•59 days ago

Also it’s much smaller than the number of children of recent immigrants that will enter school within the next few years (the children of immigrants are disproportionately young because of the age profile of immigrants coming, mostly late 20s and early 30s).

bluebookballoon.bsky.social•59 days ago

This way of framing a story - Whitehall prepares for X or Y - is a lazy & irritating way to imply that something is “happening” & is therefore a Story. At at given time there will surely be contingency plans for all sorts of things, but mostly not worth reporting, as here.

bevel2.bsky.social•59 days ago

Also, there was no conversation outside of EduChat about Ukrainian children not speaking English and therefore using up a resource in the classroom. Unlike the concern over 'immigrants' bringing dependent children who don't speak English.

martinmcgrath.bsky.social•58 days ago

There were 610,000 secondary school applicants in 2024, which was 11,000 fewer than 2022—there are 1,000,000 excess spaces across primary and secondary schools

An "influx" of 3000 wouldn't even be noticed.

juanincognito.bsky.social•57 days ago

Yeah - lots of London boroughs are shutting schools now due to declining rolls - think they have capacity (at least for now!)

suescishaw.bsky.social•59 days ago

What has happened to The Times? Slowly morphing into some sort of Telegraph/Mail/Express mash-up. Sad to see.

theamazingmrg.bsky.social•59 days ago

It's now edited by a guy whose previous jobs were editor of the Daily Mail, Telegraph, and The Sun.

It was probably inevitable.

suescishaw.bsky.social•59 days ago

Ah! Fair enough....

casmilus.bsky.social•59 days ago

All newspapers have been sliding for decades. The late 80s versions of Telegraph, Times and Guardian are virtually academic journals compared to what they are now. Even a 1939 Daily Mirror had more serious content than a 2024 "serious newspaper".

suescishaw.bsky.social•59 days ago

True - someone made a comment that media now (newspapers, TV political commentary etc) had become all about "entertainment" rather than information & discussion about policies etc.
Downside of the rise of social media, where it's all about the instant "clicks"...

casmilus.bsky.social•59 days ago

When these papers disappear I'll be as unmoved as when NME disappeared: the real paper died years earlier.

nlitchfield.bsky.social•59 days ago

Telegraph subscriptions are now over a million and growing. The Times is less than half that and hardly moving. Social media also shows that there is money in anger generation.

benjclarke.me•59 days ago

Never let data-evidenced perspective get in the way of a good headline. Fleet Street mantra (I'm guessing... but also kind of safely assuming).

davelauchlan.bsky.social•59 days ago

Here in Wokingham/Reading, there is a big issue with falling numbers due to low birth rates. Impact is especially big in the more wealthy districts. As you say, utter nonsense.

apjm5.bsky.social•59 days ago

Aren't demographic shifts reducing the number of kids in school over the next decade anyway? Enough to absorb every single privately educated student?

pwilding.bsky.social•58 days ago

From year to year fluctuations in the numbers of children mean that the state school system often has to absorb far more than the expected numbers of kids coming from private schools.

smithmichaelw.bsky.social•59 days ago

The art of the numbers in headlines, rule one provide zero context, rule two round up hard, rule three try not to use any verifiable numbers

davidfirn.bsky.social•59 days ago

I see DfE is predicting a significant fall in pupil numbers by 2029, driven mostly by birth rates, so presumably schols worried about hitting key attainment targets will be hurriedly building lacrosse pitches. Well. Possibly.

steevo57.bsky.social•59 days ago

It’s a similar gaslighting as the IHT moan by rich farmers. Not everyone in society wants a fairer system. What next? A wealth tax? Argghhh.

alannfylde.bsky.social•59 days ago

Will they still be bleating about this in 2028, if you can't afford it, give up satellite TV and live on pasta but stop ffffg moaning

lordp666.bsky.social•59 days ago

Truth died the day the Spin Doctor was born.

briantrumpet.bsky.social•59 days ago

One minute state schools are going to have to close because of rapidly falling numbers, the next minute they are going to be overwhelmed by (possibly) a few extra children. It's almost like The Times is pushing someone's agenda...

jacksont0ny.bsky.social•59 days ago

And notice the lack of coverage when state schools struggle or close through lack of funding
Fucking hypocrites

physicsjamie.bsky.social•59 days ago

Given the number of redundancies I deal with in states schools currently, I think many could easily absorb a few extra students

operabunny.bsky.social•59 days ago

Depends on the area and the school.

Mine has been oversubscribed for years and will continue to be.

Other areas are downsizing or even closing schools.

physicsjamie.bsky.social•59 days ago

We can always think of examples either way. Given the numbers quoted, I can’t see a collapse coming

jahodges69.bsky.social•59 days ago

The Times is lost.

ajlowton.bsky.social•59 days ago

There are so many empty places in inner city schools, they’ll be welcomed with open arms

alectorious.bsky.social•59 days ago

private school kids and their pushy parents ae likely to improve the prospects of state schools they attend

jenihooper.bsky.social•59 days ago

Maybe as long as they don't expect instant replies to their late night emails. Being community minded may be new to some.

joaretz1.bsky.social•59 days ago

I was speaking to a relative who tells me the numbers are down in primary and secondary schools in the N London area that they live in. The new recruits would be welcomed!

debatingroom.bsky.social•59 days ago

The UK has almost 25,000 state schools.
3000 kids equates to just one pupil for every 8 state schools.

kallmemeg.bsky.social•59 days ago

Truly a manufactured crisis

ericperlberg.bsky.social•59 days ago

According to IFS there are approximately 560,000 to 570,000 students in private schools. 3000 of those leaving is not a very large percentage.

ericperlberg.bsky.social•59 days ago

In fact, it would be useful to know what the yearly average churn in student enrolments in private schools is. It would also be useful to know if more than 3000 students anre entering private education even as ~3000 are leaving.

operabunny.bsky.social•59 days ago

The people now panicking about their children possibly being in classes of more than 16 students couldn't have cared less all the time class sizes were rising in state schools. Classes of 34-36, or multiple classes being taught in halls with 1 subject teacher? Just fine when it wasn't THEIR kids!

pattraynor.bsky.social•59 days ago

Just think of how much the parents of these kids can help improve the state schools, by their active participation and influx of funds AND they'll save thousands. Win, win 🤔😉

apoorplayer.bsky.social•59 days ago

Sticking this fact up my sleeve for potential "discussions" later.

aerendril.bsky.social•59 days ago

Exactly

messmonstergigi.bsky.social•59 days ago

School entry numbers are falling every year. There is no crisis.

philsbodydouble.bsky.social•59 days ago

Don't give them more ammo, Sam. I can see the headlines already.

"Double betrayal as our poor rich kids forced out of private education by evil Labour class war are blocked from entering the best state schools by foreign queue jumping refugee offspring who don't contribute at all."

theangelremiel.bsky.social•59 days ago

It's always interesting to see which hardships the media notices and why. Especially when, as in this case, the interest being protected is not the group suffering but the wealthier group not wanting to be minorly inconvenienced.

mrtrellis.bsky.social•59 days ago

Note that in 2010 the bit of austerity at which the upper middle class drew the line was the mooted sale of Forestry Comnission land. You can shut down the RDAs and abandon the school building programme and embolden Putin by withdrawing the BAOR...

mrtrellis.bsky.social•59 days ago

...but try to sell off the monoculture conifer plantation where I take little Tarquin and Chlamydia mountain biking and brother, you have gone too far.

jeremyhead.bsky.social•59 days ago

We pay VAT on most things.
"Luxuries?"

sirin.bsky.social•59 days ago

There's a school in my town that loses out on funding bids because, well... no one wants to send their kids there. So it's under-subscribed. Anyone needs a place, that's where they're going.

Nothing's going to improve that school faster than a small number of wealthy families demanding change.

sirin.bsky.social•59 days ago

(not that I believe for a second a slight price rise is going to force private school families to send their kids to state, but if we're playing along...)

simonhaslam.bsky.social•59 days ago

20% is hardly slight

kumararepublic.bsky.social•59 days ago

On a related note...

Most leading journalists went to private schools, says study (2006)
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2006/jun/15/pressandpublishing.publicschools

Over half of the UK's doctors, barristers, and journalists went to private schools (2017)
https://web.archive.org/web/20170711153152/https://www.businessinsider.com/most-uk-journalists-doctors-barristers-private-schools-2017-7

mustntgrumble.bsky.social•59 days ago

A pal works in a private school. Paid a pittance for the honour. And school parents are complaining because they won’t get four overseas holidays a year from 2025 due to VAT issue. Diddums.

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