This is literally something a cyberpunk villain would do
Like AM would do this to create more torture subjects when he ran out and the readers would be like "wow that's so dark and fucked up AM really is the most evil a sapient being can be"
Horrifyingly, it's not a total fabrication, though it's more that a respectable* journal published an article by a practical philosopher who advocated for this concept. All the same...
I think I used to really enjoy dystopian books, film, and TV because in the back of my mind I didn't think I'd live long enough to see any of it come to pass. Crap...
All of the dystopian fiction you consumed was about the present. You were already living through it. Hunger Games for example isnt about America's future its about post Iraq America. Hand Maids tale is basically just what if white woman experienced what black woman experience.
How is this anything like Handmaiden? This is a dead person carrying two other people's baby because they can't themselves carry. No body is being harmed. In fact it saves a live woman from labor.
Sorry you absolute lunatic but defiling a corpse is still illegal and this seems pretty defile-y. At the absolute moral bare minimum something like this should be treated as organ donation which is something that requires prior consent in case of death or in this case brain death.
Fwiw, the essay this article is based on was a medical ethicist discussing the logical irony of allowing people to consent to organ donations and not allowing something like this. They never really made a positive argument for why we should be doing this.
Yeah when I made that comment I hadn’t read the article yet but that tone deaf comment on why is it that people might care about this kinda thing really caught my eye and I just had to state the obvious.
We always were. Dystopic fiction is always about the society and time it was written in. The only thing that set The Handmaids Tale apart is that its essentially about white woman finally experiencing the conditions they forced on non-white woman.
I'm actually glad the report is from the Daily Mail. They're renowned for printing false and unreliable medical reports, so I'm hoping this is one of their twisted fantasies.
Search Natalism and Lebensborn. Didn't read about this part of the policy, but it wouldn't surprise me. One of the members of ABBA is a product of Lebensborn policy.
fmd they throw the term academic around pretty loosely these days. I can see it now, Musk will say it's more efficient if we put all women in comas and put them in big birthing farms and shit im giving that idiot ideas aren't I...
This thing came out years ago on tiktok and I said/thought the same tthing. If we thought/said it, he's probably pleasuring himself at the idea.
No more women can divorce him or say no. And he could pull a ghengis khan.
This was the horror hidden in dune by the bene tlelaxu (see book six chapter house of dune). They really won't be satisfied till we have everything from every dystopian fiction that is physically possible.
Disgusting that someone even considers such a thing, but wasn't it already established that this would be basically impossible in reality. Because brain-dead patients are on all kinds of meds to regulate their bodies (since their brain isn't doing that anymore), so a viable pregnancy is unlikely.
But anyway, just shows how little these people value women or understand how pregnancy even works. Like, they seem understand how important the health of the mother is when there is an opportunity to fatshame women etc. but then think that a practically _dead_ person could birth kids just fine?
Not to mention the conversations that would need to be had.
"Hey! Your daughter/sister/mother/aunt/grandmother is legally dead in the eyes of the state so.. Can we use her still viable, lifeless body as a breeding ground?"
I don't understand what is wrong with this. We use brain dead people for organs all the time. How is this any different? It wouldn't be the biological mother so where is the ethical issue? They are dead. It won't matter for them.
Additionally it saves a live woman from surrogacy and would make getting a surrogate much easier for families who need one. It's only as unethical as organ donation, which isn't unethical.
A) gonna go ahead and guess the amount of brain dead women is gonna coincidentally go up
B) we don’t need to help anyone breed when we can’t care for the citizens we have.
C) organ donation comes from a truly dead person. It’s not the same. Would you also take organs from the brain dead woman? FFS
organ donation is consensual. there's nothing consensual about raping an unaware, mentally dead woman and using her as a broodmare, you weird misogynistic fuck. "they're dead' yeah so are corpses and nobody is championing necrophilia are they??? Most vile thing I've ever read.
Keeping an existing organ viable until donation is just a teeny bit different thing than developing a completely new human being. You think that a braindead body is capable of such an complicated process as pregnancy, which is tough even for a healthy, living person?
In Egypt, the families would hold the bodies of the women for three days. We should start doing this again, if they intend to use us like we’re just walking uteri.
Someone played too much Death Stranding and is blurring out the line between fiction and reality. Not to mention the recklessness of instrumentalizing motherhood for patriarchal purposes at the service of providing the nation's workforce.
Yeah, that was my thought too. Another thought would be how much therapy will be needed after the person finds out about their own birth? Because no one would be even close to okay after learn that.
"A common way," does that mean we're expecting a huge number of women to start falling into unresponsive comas at a sustained rate? And is this just the best response you can think of to whatever that is, or is it all supposed to be a PLAN?
I can't really pin point in time when I thought Capitalism stopped being good or even ok. Ehh Maybe 1950's ish. I remember reading something about Cruel and Unusual punishment somewhere. - Shrug -
is this really that much better than an artifical method? seriously? like doesnt a body still require TONS of resources? like even most pragmatic thinking this seems really problematic. and with any sense of emotion this is absolutely dystopian nightmare hellscape shit.
Articles like this is why I believe overturning Roe v Wade was the GOP's fucked up solution to our "population problem." It wasn't about morality, it was about preserving the next generation of wage slaves.
If they do end up doing that (ew, btw), they should then keep brain-dead men for sperm donations with the same logic.
Still gross btw; feels like something you'd only see in sci-fi dystopic porn fics 🤮
Sperm donation is in no short supply and causes no potential harm to the donor anyway. This proposal would result in biological father who is brain dead, which is certainly unethical. Surrogacy, however, does not result in a biological mother. It's basically organ donation of a womb.
Men are afraid of women. Biologically, We barely need them and they know it. So, they vilify us, make us less human, degrade us, enslave us, for millennia.
I'm. So. Tired. Of. It.
I was speaking in general. I've got 50 years under my belt and have been dealing with the same male bullshit since I became self aware of it at age 10. Yes, 10.
When men like the Taliban tell women they can't even speak, don't think anything is just hypothetical. That's a trap.
Or just adopt???
There's already so many children that need homes. This is less than necessary.
This isn't even mentioning how awful and dismissive this is to this entire person's life like they're nothing more than a pod. Reducing an afab person to nothing more than their body.
There is an anime for that 😂 men are only for breeding purposes and women run everything. It happened because they determined men are the more violent sex and caused wars destroying large portions of the world (iirc, never watched it)
I don’t think they’ve realized yet that “redistribution of wealth” is the modern non-violent answer to a problem we used to use guillotines for. Well one millionaire realized…
I would absolutely hate to be a guy like DieHartman where you keel over every couple of minutes cuz they think that's the correct way to keep you alive.
Froma "Dune" by Frank Herbert: "An Axlotl tank was how human beings were reproduced from the cells of a cadaver. The Bene Gesserit suspected that the axlotl tanks were what remained of female Tleilaxu, since no Tleilaxu females had ever been seen."
They would have to specifically consent to it as a "just in case" before they become brain dead. This would be an ethical use of the brain dead body via implantation.
Shouldn't be done without consent, even on the physically dead.
Yikes, what a terrible idea. What's the point of keeping brain-dead people alive though? I would never want that for myself nor my loved ones. I don't get it.
Should be interesting watching them breast freed the infants. This is the sickest thing I've seen for awhile. Anything to keep the white supremacy... wtf?
I'm pretty sure that was a thing in the later Dune novels. One faction kept all their women as non-sentient womb-tanks. And now this is seriously being considered? Holy shit.
I don’t know, but it’s not working the way it is now- I mean, come on, someone actually suggested brain dead women being used to increase the population????? 🤢🤮🤢🤮
Good luck getting a doctor to go along with it. Even with a ton of evidence you consented before your brain injury, they aren't going to want to be the one who has to go before an ethics board to justify the numerous decisions surrounding it.
i also get yours, its just our government is evil. people could be pressured to consent. allowing them to consent could become a starting point, a pipeline which leads to the process becoming the norm, and ultimately nonconsensual.
Idk if you're doing a bit here, but that was the actual thesis of the essay that headline comes from. It was medical ethisist discussing the logical irony between allowing some kind of organ donations but not the donation of organs like wombs.
When you’re pregnant, your whole body is pregnant, not just your womb. The analogy falls apart instantly. If you could transplant a womb from a brain dead woman into another woman and get it to function in any meaningful way, that would be great. There are reasons why it’s only “some” organs.
Absolutely fair. I've never been a fan the argument, I just feel like this is a case of philosophical work escaping containment without context and I try to combat well intentioned misinfo as best I can when I see it.
Legally speaking they would have to be able to demonstrate that you had foreseen the circumstances when you consented otherwise it couldn’t be informed consent which is what is required. (The difference with organ donation is the law assumes consent unless you or your next of kin say otherwise.)
You also consent before your demise. Doing this to a person in a vegetative state and then keeping them alive for 9 months to carry a baby to term is a whole different ball of wax.
People who write shit like this need to be bullied relentlessly until they learn to shut the fuck up. I need motherfuckers in that comments section teasing them for using Terry Schaivo for breeding stock. I need to see [post deleted] when I click on that article. The line must be drawn somewhere.
Comments
Like AM would do this to create more torture subjects when he ran out and the readers would be like "wow that's so dark and fucked up AM really is the most evil a sapient being can be"
but abstract things like the concept of self and ownership of your own body exist.
No one is entitled to someone else’s uterus. If you can’t carry a pregnancy on your own, that’s not an excuse to violate someone else’s rights.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11705261/Should-brain-dead-women-kept-alive-used-SURROGATES.html
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10491701/
https://www.alliancevita.org/en/2023/02/use-of-brain-stem-dead-women-as-surrogate-mothers/
https://pure.eur.nl/en/publications/making-a-dead-woman-pregnant-a-critique-of-the-thought-experiment
https://uio.academia.edu/AnnaSmajdor The professor comments on other issues as well.
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:VA6C2:9dc66637-9c07-4585-b383-29bce5def308?comment_id=84c95953-b511-4188-8812-e7c4c0ddd884
Dune: Axolotl Tanks
USA: Brain-Dead Women
No more women can divorce him or say no. And he could pull a ghengis khan.
OK..
Wow. So cool.
Very cool meme, fellow youth.
I mean, everyone has the choice if they’re fine with it and consent, but this is genuinely so messed up???
Pardon my language.
It's not a real article right?
Who tf would pay for it? I think the answer to this question determines the kind of dystopia were discussing here
"Hey! Your daughter/sister/mother/aunt/grandmother is legally dead in the eyes of the state so.. Can we use her still viable, lifeless body as a breeding ground?"
I can't even imagine.
Land of the free (braindead women)
F. Herbert was a genius.
That was sarcasm, btw.
B) we don’t need to help anyone breed when we can’t care for the citizens we have.
C) organ donation comes from a truly dead person. It’s not the same. Would you also take organs from the brain dead woman? FFS
Also why
I could at least understand the idea of doing this to save organs for transplant, but it's not like we're short on people
By Frank Herbert
Tell me they aren't out of their minds.
Still gross btw; feels like something you'd only see in sci-fi dystopic porn fics 🤮
https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Axlotl_Tank
I'm. So. Tired. Of. It.
(Wasn't lawmakers or anything like that)
But in the narrow context of the remarks, it eliminates the poster's immediate, circumstantial sentiment.
When men like the Taliban tell women they can't even speak, don't think anything is just hypothetical. That's a trap.
Next best was getting my tubes taken out.
There's already so many children that need homes. This is less than necessary.
This isn't even mentioning how awful and dismissive this is to this entire person's life like they're nothing more than a pod. Reducing an afab person to nothing more than their body.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/02/03/medics-apologise-suggesting-brain-dead-women-could-used-surrogate/
https://youtu.be/q2gO4DKVpa8?si=7oUBuh9dzldQ929K
"This was a horrible thing that happened in that game, we really shou-"
"BBs for ALL!"
"No seriously, listen to yourself, this is a terrible thing"
Shit's wild lol!
ah, so they were proposing having a tickbox on the drivers license for letting women donate their bodies this way.
looks like twitter was blowing things out of proportion again and assuming they were just going to do it to every woman. what a fucking shock.
It's the creepiest scifi I have ever read.
They would have to specifically consent to it as a "just in case" before they become brain dead. This would be an ethical use of the brain dead body via implantation.
Shouldn't be done without consent, even on the physically dead.
thats the thing that would keep this from being funny
Yeah. You're right.