So, What are the "problems" of aerial cable cars for transit? There are a few issues that will keep this technology from becoming mainstream mass transit solutions but rather a niche tech suitable for specific contexts and needs. A thread - ThreadSky

chittimarco.bsky.social • 44 days ago

So, What are the "problems" of aerial cable cars for transit?

There are a few issues that will keep this technology from becoming mainstream mass transit solutions but rather a niche tech suitable for specific contexts and needs.

A thread

Reposted from Burrito Justice

these aren’t problems

“Critics also cite issues like slow speeds (limited to around 27 mph)…and the inability to cover distances longer than around 4.5 miles as pitfalls for the expansion of aerial transit”

www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/seven...

Comments

chittimarco.bsky.social•44 days ago

First problem: their capacity can be ok, around 2-3,000 passenger per hour per direction, in the ballpark of a medium-sized tramway, but lower than the 2-car VAL 208 light metros.

The big problem is that they have a fixed capacity which can't be tuned to demand. That's a problem for urban transit.

george.borkbork.ca•44 days ago

4K for some of the bc ones…for skiing though, so could be higher I would expect… and the new one at Alpe d’Huez says 5k… https://www.skiresort.info/ski-resort/alpe-dhuez/ski-lifts/l109795/

chittimarco.bsky.social•44 days ago

If you ever did downhill ski, you are used to long lines to get on a gondola or chairlift during peaks (mid morning when everybody start skiing).

If this is ok for a recreational activity, this is hardly acceptable for transit, because you'll loose the high frequency advantage with long lines.

chittimarco.bsky.social•44 days ago

Secondly, they are very expensive to operate on a offered seat*km basis : all these moving parts require a lot of maintenance and energy. Mid-life overhaul come quite sooner compared to other transit and can be quite costly.

chittimarco.bsky.social•44 days ago

Thirdly they are extremely rigid in terms of geometry. Even now that you can bend a bit the trajectory at pylons, cable-based routes are inevitably a sum of straight segments between stations

The technology also limits the length of each line to a few km maximum, a limitation other techs don't have

chittimarco.bsky.social•44 days ago

For the same reason, stations tend to placed quite far apart and there are only a few of them in the same line.

If you look at the Mi Teleferico network in La Paz, one of the largest urban cable car system, it has many short lines, each with only a few stations ~1km apart

chittimarco.bsky.social•44 days ago

There are a few more problems, one of them being that they are quite susceptible to extreme weather, notably high winds, and evacuation can be problematic in case of emergency.

Also, if there is a problem the entire system need to be stopped, unlike trams or metros where service can be partialized

jean-b-anderson.bsky.social•44 days ago

Really, I thought the operational costs would be low compared to running buses back and forth? No drivers, no braking or accelerating, etc? How many moving parts are we talking about compared to a fleet of buses? SFU (Vancouver) gondola business case had operational costs almost cut in half

fdms.eu•44 days ago

Ironically ski lift gondolas typically do not have the same capacity throughout the day – they often run at reduced speeds when demand is low

fdms.eu•44 days ago

(Oh well, the gondolas themselves ofc do always have the same capacity, just not the gondola lift)

slucy.bsky.social•44 days ago

Why do they run them slower off peak? To save energy?

fdms.eu•44 days ago

Yeah afaik. (Tbh not sure exactly if everyone or actually most resorts do this, I've just been told it's normal to do so by operators)

alexschief.bsky.social•44 days ago

I once worked on a gondola project in a context where it functioned more like urban transit. But ridership was peaky and even at peak demand, people did not fill every seat because they wanted to sit with their party.

We were looking at Core Capacity but couldn't establish overcapacity thresholds.

khyber.bsky.social•44 days ago

Can't capacity be somewhat higher? Tianmen Mountain in China had 26 person cable cars about every 10-12 s, so about 8k pph.

dawe.bsky.social•44 days ago

I believe the Peak2Peak in Whistler has a 4,100 pphpd capacity

jean-b-anderson.bsky.social•44 days ago

Depends on the route. In cases where the gondola replaces a bus route, you can just run some buses at peak if needed, just like is done currently.

meehan.nyc•44 days ago

Some company/consultancy came to my local Brooklyn community board with a slick presentation proposing to replace the Franklin Avenue Shuttle with a "Brooklyn High Line" and an aerial cable car. Just so unimaginably dumb

jean-b-anderson.bsky.social•44 days ago

Good thread, but honestly, the problem we have in Vancouver is getting people to accept them for the obvious use cases where they would be fantastic, not that people are trying to use them in cases where they aren't optimal, so, from here at least, you are pulling on the wrong end of the rope.

jean-b-anderson.bsky.social•44 days ago

I mean, are there any real life examples where people built a gondola and should have built something else?

nicknslc.bsky.social•44 days ago

Utah Dept of Transportation wants to build the longest gondola in the world as a transit solution.
https://udot.utah.gov/connect/2022/08/31/udot-identifies-gondola-b-as-the-preferred-alternative-in-little-cottonwood-canyon/

chittimarco.bsky.social•44 days ago

This pretty much looks like a case where a gondola makes sense: mountain area, prone to winter weather conditions, and avalanches on the road.

nicknslc.bsky.social•44 days ago

When you dig into the details, it doesn’t make sense because it doesn’t change the number of cars going in the canyon and removes the busses that go to the resorts in the canyon. It also cannot operate during avalanche control work.

nicknslc.bsky.social•44 days ago

Also can’t operate during extreme weather (high winds mostly) which this canyon is notorious for.

minoh09.bsky.social•40 days ago

my city, Medellin, has one of the highest rates of Lightning Strikes in the world, and every time it rains pretty hard, lines get suspended immediately and there are delays that last over an hour, some pretty bad storms halt all the lines altogether lol

minoh09.bsky.social•40 days ago

That to me is the biggest Achilles heel of the system especially now with worsening climate, but nevertheless, it is pretty revolutionary and tourist love them

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