Doctors already have no problem letting people die. The right to die will become the duty to die and doctors will make that happen. Who do you think helped the Nazis exterminate the first disabled child? Doctors.
As I have gotten older, the mantra from doctors is that they're not going to treat me because I am just getting older and that's life. They're getting two grand a visit to deny me care. What a deal.
This was the argument made against MAID (Medical Assistance In Dying) when it was being debated here in Canada. MAID has been legal here for 8 years and forced euthanasia hasn't happened. In fact there has only been a handful of reported cases of doctors inappropriately suggesting it to patients
Absolutely we should listen to the disabled, but I'm afraid I don't believe any doctor would end a life just because they are disabled. This isn't about the injustice disabled people most definitely experience, it's about the choice of the terminally ill. If the bill doesn't pass, we'll so be it 🤷
Most terminally ill are disabled. Tell me if you’ve had a DNR placed on your med records by a Doctor? Because I have. Then had to fight and threaten legal action if it wasn’t removed. Govt allowed it during lockdown. We’ve no trust.
Worth noting it isn’t necessarily to make it so British Drs can administer this, it’s maybe only so you can go abroad with someone without them risking prosecution so you don’t have to do it alone.
My concern is how it’s done, is there a humane way? Nitrogen pods are bad. As seen in US executions.
I don’t think anyone is seriously suggesting doctors will be able to write “euthanise this person” on someone’s notes so the DNR comparison doesn’t make sense.
If the bill is passed it will be the patient requesting it, why deny someone that choice?
I can see the sentiment from both sides. I know what I would want for myself. I want a death with dignity with my loved ones nearby but the way older and disabled people have been treated historically isn't very encouraging. I am from Canada where assisted dying is legal but my life is in the UK
I’m glad Liz Carr is being a voice for disabled people in this debate. I would recommend people watch her bbc documentary. I’m not convinced the safeguards proposed in the current bill are adequate and there couldn’t be a future slide towards legislation like they have in Canada.
Any doctor that puts an unauthorised DNR on a patient status should be prosecuted for murder, like they are now for euthanasia. Then the rest of us can have nice things, like the right to die. This isn't the hard problem the article tries to make it out to be.
Assisted dying is about choice. It is not about someone having a choice over another's decisions. The trust issue is an important separate issue but is not specific only to assisted dying.
In Canada, no one can impose a decision of assisted dying on another.
MP's have political bents eg religion.
I like Liz Carr, but I feel like she's conflating 2 separate issues. I feel like a lot of people who support right to die would also support her work to end discrimination against disabled people in medicine. They're both about dignity and treating patients how they've asked to be treated.
The point is that if we are not supporting assisted living — and we’re not — then we should not be enabling assisted dying. These are not separate issues. It’s exactly the same issue: Dignity, and agency.
I can see that perspective. But I don't think withholding a form of care from one group will help another group get the care they're asking for. We can hold the medical community accountable without denying what I see as a fundamental right from some patients.
Her argument is that giving the option to some will ultimately see it imposed on others. She argues for dignity in living for all to be the main goal in a humane society, something that simply doesn’t exist yet. I recommend her documentary if you’ve not seen it. The slippery slope is real
Two things can be true at once. Right to life and death are both fundamental. There is a problem, regardless of whether this bill passes, that must be addressed. I believe it's possible to care about and address two things at once.
I think he's saying that the safeguards aren't preventing the medical community from applying DNRs to people against their wishes. I think both are accountability issues.
The problem is you think this is about doctors lining up disabled patients and shooting them in the head for fun. Read the article, read the criticisms of the Canadian system, think about how easy it is to assume disabled people have no quality of life and then "compassionately" offer them death
Completely agree with Liz. If the bill is passed it should only be for the terminally ill, not those living with a disability. DNR should only be assigned once the patient has been consulted & agreed to it.
This is what the bill is for, no? It's for terminally ill people to die at a time of their choosing, with dignity. Moreover, it's about the individual's right to choose.
Laws get expanded. It happened in Canada, there are attempts to do it in NZ. And how are individuals "freely choosing" if their doctors are denying them adequate pain management or society is denying them basic necessities?
I'm in Canada. I'm of the mindset that if you are against medical assistance in dying, don't do it! Requests to include the mentally ill has been delayed until 2027. Here is the criteria for medical assistance in dying in Canada:
Whoa! No offence meant! I haven't personally heard of 'medical endangerment or the erasure of disabled people's lives'. You are perfectly entitled to not support this law. Peace to you.
Everyone who wants to live will live. Disability is not a terminal illness, so based on that, the current bill would not allow these people to have assisted dying, yhat would be illegal. It's very clear.
I have every sympathy with the struggle that disabled people have constantly. However terminally ill people soon facing a possible agonising death, who are not wealthy enough to afford a Swiss Dignitas death, should have the choice, if they wish, to shorten their death.
Giving a blanket trust to doctors and lawyers is dangerous unless sufficient safeguards are put in place. Not sure now with a broken nhs and court system that the time is right.
Comments
DWP frequently pursues disabled people without regard for wellbeing
Try listening to disabled people. There is a world where this bill can happen but people need to listen to the disabled community.
This is why the Bill lacks support. Disbaled people are simply ignored.
I want to back the Bill, you don't want to listen to get to a place where I can.
She is very clear about having two FIRST-HAND experiences of disabled friends whose records were altered against their will to include a DNR.
If you say 'we should listen to the disabled,' then start bloody listening!
My concern is how it’s done, is there a humane way? Nitrogen pods are bad. As seen in US executions.
If the bill is passed it will be the patient requesting it, why deny someone that choice?
In Canada, no one can impose a decision of assisted dying on another.
MP's have political bents eg religion.
The bill and campaign as it stands are not listening to disbaled people's concerns.
With respect it’s just daft to think that’s going to happen.
https://www.dyingwithdignity.ca/end-of-life-support/get-the-facts-on-maid/
You are the reason I refuse to support these laws despite wanting people to have death with dignity.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/28/assisted-dying-bill-vote-mps-disabled-people-liz-carr?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu