We will now get to watch SCOTUS either uphold the Constitution, or parse "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" to justify internment and mass deportation.
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I think the far right SCOTUS will go full fascist. Remember Alito saying there's "no compromise" and "one side will win"? Republicans & christofascists have been very intentionally working for full control for decades, they aren't going to let a single opportunity slip by.
We are heading towards a conflict:
-Male House Republicans have sexted a Jan 6 witness to coerce her
-Trumps DOJ are supporting violent criminals who beat up the police
-ICE are arresting US Citizens
-US Media are bribing Trump
Historically, civil rights & even human rights are pawns of a POTUS & a contrived emergency. Laws grant enough flexibility to empower a crook to be a crook…. for years.
The country has never had a challenge to the root structure of law and order before.
So if they make that ridiculous decision (to parse), wouldn’t the next logical step be for undocumented immigrants to claim diplomatic immunity for any and all crimes? After all, they wouldn’t be under US “jurisdiction “, so only subject to expulsion, like an ambassador.
If they agree with the argument that children of visa holders and undocumented immigrants are not subject to the jurisdiction of the US, how do they decide this language only applues to future-born children. They can interpret or legislate, not both.
I reckon if he doesn’t like the SC ruling, Drumph will ignore it. He has complete immunity after all, and SCOTUS doesn’t have a brown shirt militia or an army or arrest powers.
Much as the 2008 SCOTUS parsed the 2nd amendment, basically abrogating a well-regulated militia. Removing the true meaning of what had been, for more than 2 centuries, the 2nd amendment.
That’s how I’ve seen it, esp studying history for my citizenship test. Not a free for all, people of all sorts running about with weaponry, but a group of citizens who train together and regulate themselves in order to be ready.
"Bleating and babbling we fell on his neck with a scream
Wave upon wave of demented avengers
March cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream
Have you heard the news?
The dogs are dead."
Geez. SCOTUS already ignored the 14th Amendment section 3 when they voted to let Trump hold office again and ruled he can commit crimes if he deems them "official acts". Besides, SCOTUS has no enforcement mechanism to stop Trump. Maybe an army of Mangionies will fall from the sky to save us.
There was no USA in the 12th century. However, there were the "remains" of the Roman Empire, which has fallen because of the internal rot. Just like the USA is falling now. Aside from this, I agree with you on Alito. He is a thug.
Gee, I wonder what they'll do. After all, how much more self contradictory can they possibly be than what Scalia pulled of with Heller.
Well, we're about to find out. How can someone detained in a prison camp be any more "under the jurisdiction of?" I'm sure Alito will explain it all...
They won't uphold the Constitution...there is no more trust in the US judicial system...not after the felon got away with all his crimes...As a vet I now see the US I fought for as a shit-hole country that's on the verge of replicating Russia and/or Hungary.
And that would make undocumented people -or people who look undocumented- enemy combatants.
If I understand the meaning of the "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" clause. It was to keep the children of an invading army from claiming citizenship. They've been calling it an invasion for years...
I'm pretty sure they are citizens on the grounds that of their parents committed a crime, they would be charged under US or state laws. Therefore jurisdiction applies. Whether the SC will do the right thing...
We will... and we know that the crazy two will be joined by 'never heard of thank you cards, why?' Beer Brett... probably down to Roberts and Judging Amy....
That’s my question. Hypothetically, if I go to Colorado, I can go to a store and buy marijuana, but when I return home to PA, that’d be illegal. PA can’t prosecute me for what I did in CO — because I wasn’t subject to PA’s jurisdiction when I bought recreational weed.
I am still holding out hope for Roberts and Barrett. Why? I don't know. But I don't think Roberts wants to be on the wrong side of history when all is said and done.
The words “well regulated militia” mean nothing. Birthright citizenship is gone. Apparently you don’t need to change the constitution. You just ignore or change your interpretation.
There are 22 states, the ACLU, and at least two other groups suing over this, & that was only the first judgment of 3 states' motion. There isn't much dancing to be done on that phrase, it excludes diplomatic offspring only, ever since its first use in 1898. & SCOTUS didn't keep Trump
from being sentenced as a felon, so I wouldn't engage in catastrophic thinking on it just yet. He also wants to revoke Native American citizenship, but that's guaranteed by a 1924 Act of Congress.
I’m not usually a Gorsuch fan but he would absolutely vote against this if it came before SCOTUS. His track record with Native rights is a fascinating look at how someone who is actually a textualist upholds a treaty.
The Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 fixed this potential hole in the 14th Amendment & declared all Native Americans to be citizens at birth. The fascists are just pretending the act doesn't exist until someone calls them on it.
Oh, we already know what #beerbrett and #amy are gonna do. They told us in June/July “acting in official capacity” remember? That’s how you know he planned to win and danced on stage for 8 minutes instead of building a #conceptofaplan to help #wethepeople RBG coulda held on another month…
Sadly, it will happen. It has already happened - history is just repeating itself. The only difference is that while America implodes Russia, China & North Korea will be making money moves.
But if undocumented immigrants aren’t “subject to the jurisdiction thereof,” then the USGOV can’t do anything at all to them. They would have the equivalent of diplomatic immunity. (=another good reason their argument will fail) #BirthrightCitizenship
Exactly. If non-citizens are no longer subject to the jurisdiction of the United States when on their soil, anything goes. Does this mean that a foreign national could take out Trump and not be liable for prosecution?
I am visiting heaven
The roads are lined with
Buttercups,
Lemons and oranges
Grow wild
As does rosemary
And lavender
People are kind
The streets are clean
No guns
No drug problems
Little crime
Where is this
Place you ask?
Not the USA.
Yes they will parse “subject to the jurisdiction thereof”….which is what they are supposed to do, interpret the words/meaning. The real problem is that this Court always starts from what they want the result to be and then tortures the meaning of the words/text to justify that result.
Are you proud to be an American? I am trying to decide if this place is worth my time. Decency has left the building. Intelligence has left the building. Pretty much all good things are at least headed out.....
Yep.
So how does Amy Barrett grapple with the fact that she has 2 kids that she adopted from Hati. Would they be deported? Not born on American soil. What about them?
Hell, Korematsu was once the law of the land. Are they really willing to effectively bring it back? What about Justice Taney and Dredd Scott? Wow. Something good trickled down from the Reagan administration. What other horrors from the past will these clowns bless us and US with?
Are we starting to understand why total immunity was so important to Trump? You essentially gave the man carte blanche, to do whatever he wants, then thumb is nose at you. Well done.👏🏻👏🏻
On top of that, you get upset with Biden for attempting to protect those around him from persecution? JFC 🤦🏻♂️
Right, and his “throw spaghetti on the wall” approach is designed to overwhelm, making it nearly impossible to challenge all of these EOs. He knows the outrageous ones will be legally challenged, while the cruel ones might just stick due to a lack of prioritization by those fighting against them.
An embarrassment to our country
An enemy of our country
A draft dodger
A narcissist sociopath obsessed with enriching himself
Really? This is who we are?
We are just silent
The “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” pertains to diplomats and invading troops from other countries. We know it. The SCOTUS knows it. If they parse this in any way we know they’re full on Nazi sympathizers.
I'm pretty sure the jurisdiction bit refers to Native Americans that had not renounced their tribal membership. Native Americans were not made citizens until 1924.
It was for Native Americans, since they were still treated as separate nations (governed by treaties rather than laws) and diplomatic agents and their families, who traditionally are immune from the host nation's laws (literally not subject to the jurisdiction).
They may but even though she is an evangelical Catholic ( I think) I think she possesses a real right from wrong because her beliefs may be federalist but not god based she has a distinction between church and state. Perhaps she does listen to people with values. She’s saved us at least 2 times.
And if they do the latter, we should be ready to fight, and those with voices should be ready to lead the resistance, and encourage the protests that will be needed. Huge fucking protests everywhere. Wink wink.
The majority on the #SCOTUS, of course, believes that they are flawless arbiters of what the #Constitution truly means. They are absolutists who consider themselves originalists. How absurd that such Medieval minds believe that they understand the intent of The founders--men of the Enlightenment.
There is no separation of powers between SCOTUS and POTUS, without an independent judiciary you have a politicized legal system and a fundamentally corrupt state, especially when power is as heavily concentrated with the President as it is.
They also better read the room/country. Fringe racist sociopaths want this. Pretty sure the rest do not. They might get a backlash They have never seen before.
Since when has SCOTUS cared about public opinion? They didn’t care about it when they overturned Roe and they’ve fought tooth and nail any suggestion that they should be bound by an enforceable code of ethics.
Well, if they are really doing their job, like they are supposed to do, then the whole argument is unconstitutional. Seems like they can be swayed in their rulings at times. They may want to understand that the sleeping giant may actually awaken if provoked. But you could be right & they just do it.
Broken arrow the enemy is in the perimeter.
Ask Canada and Mexico to boycott our products and to stop traveling to the USA. Donald and his supporters are like a cancer. We need chemo therapy. We have to hurt the whole body if we are going to stop them.
It sucks but it has to be done.
Pass it on.
The premier of BC has already encouraged us to halt spending on travel to the US. Our federal government has also asked us to be mindful of shopping local and on Canadian-made products…
Great. I'm happy to hear that. I'm an American. Please ask all your friend to boycott all of our products.
Trump and his MAGA supporters are the enemy within. We have to stop them. Maybe we can salvage a damaged democracy when they are gone.
It does feel very lonely. As a resister and someone who detests Trump, it’s a horrible moment for us. And frankly if the world turned against the US, we would deserve it. Because we have always been racist AF. Now this country is seeking to actually hurt people, physically and psychologically.
Well they added some for the immunity and they took some
Away for the 14th so…… odds are Clarence and gorsech are gonna
Question birthright. Sigh…. The are only originalists until they are not.
If they're not subject to the jurisdiction where they are actually located, why should any other law apply to them? Or are they going to carve out that definition only for eligibility for birthright citizenship for their children.
When Trumps brownshirts or the military start shooting people and arresting people never to be seen again. That’s when society breaks down and civil war begins. Everyone will be a domestic terrorist.
Some people have been building their communities since before this election finished. Others are preparing idk people don't want to go back we will see how far this shit show remains peaceful. You might b right or you might b underestimating people who are backed in a corner.
They are there to adhere to the constitution and to interpret when needed. It’s up to Congress to change the laws (and the constitution). Let’s vote the people we want to represent us to avoid all this insanity.
I think they'll make a big show of deporting a handful of people. But they're going to decide those privately owned concentration camps full of slave labor is too profitable to give up. At least until the time comes for a solution of the more final variety.
The amount of logical absurdity to conclude that the 14th amendment does not confer birthright citizenship is a slap in the face of reason and common sense. The people are tired of being gaslit by SCOTUS’ absurd logic. There might be mass exodus of CITIZENS at that point
So they’re saying that undocumented immigrants can be subject to the jurisdiction of state and federal criminal courts but somehow not subject to jusridction for citizenship purposes is wild
I don't agree, they've already done so much stuff to hurt America and Americans did nothing. I think the problem is people are used to saying something on social media and calling it good and not actually helping the problem.
Wonder if selling out their country was worth it to them. Allowing him on the ballot, stalling investigations, giving him unlimited immunity. Shameful.
We already know 4 of them will be parsing up a storm. Their clerks are probably already writing the opinions. The Constitution rests on the shakey spines of Roberts and the Handmaiden. 😬
And we are at this point because not a single media outlet got it right about what disenchanted people like me even though I still voted for blue. I grew up in Florida. I never once was ever polled nor was anybody I knew or anybody they knew. Nobody actually asks the people.
You think your power begins and ends at "polls", but you can email, call, "snail mail" or even visit the local office of your elected officials at any time and inform them of your opinions on matters.
The press is wrong more than it’s right. Their opinions are usually so far off the mark of what we’re talking about in our social clubs and with our coworkers. the problem is DC runs on what the press decides they’re going to put a spotlight on it’s one of the reasons the polls have been so wrong
Comments
-Male House Republicans have sexted a Jan 6 witness to coerce her
-Trumps DOJ are supporting violent criminals who beat up the police
-ICE are arresting US Citizens
-US Media are bribing Trump
WTF
@maddow.msnbc.com
@aoc.bsky.social
@govpritzker.illinois.gov
The country has never had a challenge to the root structure of law and order before.
Due to this, combination, we're screwed.
deportation.
USA: Land of the not so free.
instead of DSOTM, let's quote Animals.
"Bleating and babbling we fell on his neck with a scream
Wave upon wave of demented avengers
March cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream
Have you heard the news?
The dogs are dead."
READ IT HERE: https://12ft.io/proxy
Or here
https://www.yahoo.com/news/hitler-dismantled-democracy-53-days-133000255.html
Copy/Paste, repost it on your websites, blogs, whatever, just get it out there.✊️🙏
Thanks for sharing.
Well, we're about to find out. How can someone detained in a prison camp be any more "under the jurisdiction of?" I'm sure Alito will explain it all...
If I understand the meaning of the "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" clause. It was to keep the children of an invading army from claiming citizenship. They've been calling it an invasion for years...
They don't want to honor the Geneva Convention...
If it stands it will be ugly the worst concentration camp ugly
Sole arbiters of what the "Constitution" actually "Meant". But only...in today's Federalist Society mindset.
Stay worried my friends...Stay worried.
They broke the laws last time Trump was in office, they will break the laws again.
My 16 y/o knows this from HS civics for fucks sake.
Is it not obvious why Trump and the Republican Party keep promoting white supremacy and Adolf Hitler?
To have any hope of stopping the coming genocide we need to start calling it out now.
Gorsuch and Kavanaugh a toss up.
Roberts and Coney Barrett unlikely
and if Cannon were on board she would make something up to join Thomas and Alito.
I take that bet
Makes you rethink 9/11 huh
The roads are lined with
Buttercups,
Lemons and oranges
Grow wild
As does rosemary
And lavender
People are kind
The streets are clean
No guns
No drug problems
Little crime
Where is this
Place you ask?
Not the USA.
Should I stay or should I go.
So how does Amy Barrett grapple with the fact that she has 2 kids that she adopted from Hati. Would they be deported? Not born on American soil. What about them?
reality - yes
If you're born on American soil, that makes you an American period.
On top of that, you get upset with Biden for attempting to protect those around him from persecution? JFC 🤦🏻♂️
An enemy of our country
A draft dodger
A narcissist sociopath obsessed with enriching himself
Really? This is who we are?
We are just silent
Same thing in Nazi Germany: threats and bribes to turn people in, combined with the regime having to deport to keep the raging rednecks happy.
Barrett is going to be the level head in conservative SCOTUS.
She likely hasn’t been around such genius in her cloistered life.
Ask Canada and Mexico to boycott our products and to stop traveling to the USA. Donald and his supporters are like a cancer. We need chemo therapy. We have to hurt the whole body if we are going to stop them.
It sucks but it has to be done.
Pass it on.
Trump and his MAGA supporters are the enemy within. We have to stop them. Maybe we can salvage a damaged democracy when they are gone.
One of your countrymen shined a bright light on our current situation.
https://open.substack.com/pub/robertreich/p/a-view-from-north-of-the-border?r=stn1b
From the US.
Away for the 14th so…… odds are Clarence and gorsech are gonna
Question birthright. Sigh…. The are only originalists until they are not.
I truly think once people are seeing the effects of loved ones disappearing that will be the the last straw.
https://thehotshotwakeup.substack.com/p/following-executive-order-the-bureau?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=661423&post_id=155549574&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=false&r=11sa7l&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email
That’s how I’ve been since 2016.
You should try it sometime.