As someone who is committed to due process, I accept the verdict by the jury. Now, how about people accept the verdict of another NYC jury that found a guy guilty of 39 counts of fraud.
I’m torn by this decision. If he hadn’t done anything, people could have gotten hurt. People are tired of cities not effectively dealing with crime and criminals. OTOH, involuntary manslaughter doesn’t seem unreasonable. But nothing?! Idk, man.
Depending on his experience and level of training, he should have known the potential outcome and need to relax the choke. I wonder if the jury was aware of his training. Seems a big deal.
His own military instructor testified he was taught not to hold anyone in that chock for more than 3 minutes. He held it for 6. The jury ignored it apparently.
The jury was deadlocked and couldn’t reach a decision on his guilt/innocence. I was thinking that would happen bc of the situation. Wonder if they will try him again later on.
If you are talking about Trump, yes by the state. If you are talking about the guy in this murder case, I do believe it was also charged by the state. Yes, I know the charge has to be federal to pardon. I was making a joke.
I was talking about Daniel Penny case & thought maybe I had it wrong about it being a state case - tried looking it up, but since verdict is new that's all I could find.
Sometimes jokes/sarcasm r hard to identify when written - sorry I missed your meaning.
Hell, You can just go back to Rittenhouse to see how judges can put their fingers on the scales. I am not saying I agree or disagree - I am saying we either believe in the system or we don’t. It is not mutually exclusive to say it needs improving…
Emmett Till was a case where the jury nullification was admitted. It is the same country, the same legal system, and the same species. There is lots of experimental evidence of racism today. Emmett Till is not the only example. It is clear, unambiguous, and egregious.
Well, some of that, maybe some bigotry against black victims and mentally ill victims.
Favoritism toward a veteran, even though his background (and training) should have been at the top of the list SUPPORTING his guilt (because he knew what he was doing the entire time).
BS, that is not what happened. We even have the police interview tapes that talk about what happened. Nice try Che... keep backing the evil, losing side.
It’s not like he shot him in self defense, he put the guy in a choke hold, which takes time to kill someone with. I don’t believe his intention was to kill him, but he did. He’s white and military, that absolutely helped his case, history doesn’t lie.
Right!? How could he be expected to know that continuing to deny somebody oxygen after they're unconscious due to lack of oxygen would result in death 🙄
Character fully figures into motive, pre-meditation, mindset and can determine whether a case goes to trial, character witnesses, the juries verdict to the sentence if guilty.
After riding the Subways for years and being scared shirtless by aggressive people like Neely, NOTHING is anywhere near plain, in that situation. I am not violent but would gladly have put some holes in the guy based on his behavior from what I have read. It's scary being trapped by someone unstable
New York City juries are stacked with White Supremacists OR maybe people that rode the Subways during Covid and post Covid when riders were constantly harassed, threatened, saw or experienced serious violence near daily or weekly, perhaps. I stayed off the trains.
why people who are trained to essentially kill people are allowed to forget all their training and make “mistakes” that get people hurt or killed is insane to me…
A jury of his peers would be racist or apathetic ppl deemed him not guilty. Not really the gotcha moment you think. We all know the dog whistles and aggressiveness ppl allow with poor black ppl. They receive the least amount of sympathy, why would we expect a jury to defend the victim?
you don’t get to fucking murder people just because you served our country. When you’re on home soil, you have to follow the rules.
And no shade, but no one cared when a black veteran was pepper sprayed by a police officer a few years ago. HIS service didn’t matter then. So why should Penny’s?
Are we changing the subject? Does white privilege apply here? I think a respectable guy reacted to an aggressive guy, that riders testified "terrified them " was "aggressive to a different level" was lurching at people? Was the city scary at that time? It was.
But...the actions were criminal. There was no reason to put his hands on the man nor restrain him. That is called assault. I believe the race card is accurate, in my opinion, because had the races been reversed, the black man would have been locked up.
I’m not an expert on the case, but someone who physically harms another person with any kind of weapon could potentially justify their actions. However, in this case, there was no weapon found, despite someone hollering, screaming, and threatening. This doesn’t justify restraining someone.
Mental health issues threaten the safety of riders, people using the train as a place to sleep, and the risk of being shoved into the path of an oncoming train makes the experience even more daunting. It raises the question of when riders should take action where the NYPD won’t.
But he was threatening several people in the subway and testified that they feared for their life. Penny neutralized the target. It's a tragedy Neeley died, but he was failed by the health system, his family, and law enforcement.
This was a person with a mental illness that needed help and the family couldn’t help. Daniel Penny didn’t walk out of his house and said I’m killing somebody today. I rode the subway and was attack by a mental illness guy and nobody helped me. I was ale to run away from him but got scared for life.
Its a beautiful thing!
Penny found Not Guilty.
NY Assassin caught!
GOP says all of Trumps appointments will go through!
Assad Gone!
No More $$ for Ukraine!
This is atrocious.
The man was a US Marine and knew damn well that a choke hold of that duration would kill.
Period.
He acted to stop a threat, but once the threat was subdued he should’ve known he was killing him.
He was trained to kill.
Then the coroner is either brain-dead or a liar. Or someone read he had that in his system and suffered from a mental condition, not physical, MENTAL, condition abs decided they wanted that narrative better than the truth that a man was strangled to death in public with witnesses cheering him on.
Imagine a world where we didn’t go to fantastic leaps of extraordinary theories about the cause of death when we could plainly see a trained Marine choke a man out….for several minutes.
Well, a trained Marine held him in a chokehold for several minutes.
Let’s do an experiment: hold your breath and count to 420 Mississippi. Let’s see how far you get.
But guess we’ll never know.
The other "autopsy" was a pathologist hired by the defense speculating about an alternative cause of death. As far as I am aware the defense's pathologist was not present for the autopsy and did not do a second autopsy.
If blood to brain is stopped, consciousness is lost in about 7 seconds. If it extends to minutes brain damage will occur, if 6 minutes death is guaranteed.
If you push directly against the trachea, it will collapse and a slow death will occur if a tracheotomy or other procedure is not performed.
There's a point beyond the minute mark that this went far beyond self defense or defense of anyone else.
A layperson can put someone else "to sleep" in under a minute with a few minutes of training, this man was trained in hand to hand combat and knew to the second when the "threat" was eliminated.
Here at BlueSky, we love democracy and the rule of law, but only when we get what we want. If we don’t get what we want, then it’s obviously fascism and racism at work.
Okay, so is the solution to have the police do the hits on the health insurance CEOs? Do we just have to tell them they're black men in crisis and let them take it from there?
I heard a Baptist preacher say Daniel Penny should be acquitted for strangling that mentally disabled black man on the subway because he was just being a hero.I wonder if that had been a white mentally disabled man and the "hero" had been a black man, if that preacher would have said the same thing.
I guess everyone here heard all of the evidence and decided against the 12 jurors who decided the verdict. IDK, I would like to know what Ben has to say about this.
Penny acted as any Marine would, he took charge when others stood back and were afraid of acting. He had no idea of the victim’s mental state. He just knew the man was threatening people and Penny stepped in to neutralize the threat. I believe the jury recognized this.
Justice served,
Semper Fi.
"Neutralizing a threat" isn't the same as extinguishing all life from said individual, and we all know that.
Justice is not served when there is a grave involved.
Don’t get me wrong. I respect your views on the death penalty. I don’t respect your reasoning on Penny’s case.
Each his own. I happen to agree with the jury.
My brother was in a bar fight after a man assaulted a woman one night. He had him in a choke hold on the ground. I had to remove my brother b/c the dude's lips were turning blue. Dude had a record. I kept my brother from unaliving him. Dude was arrested.
He could most definitely feel him going limp. He chose to keep choking.
Guy was struggling against my brother but you would too if you were being choked and couldn't breathe. I saw the color draining. I ripped my brother off. I wasn't letting him go to jail.
In one - By my brothers, a kid in HS and in courses, yes.
For the average person, it is not an easy feat to stay calm, even done by a trained individual. Especially someone that may be having a mental health crisis. Someone that may be prone to panic attacks will be worse off in that situation.
Take charge of what? A man having a mental health episode about being homeless. What part of that needed violence. If people were trying to get Penny to stop choking Jordan, at what point does that become about him wanting to be viewed as a hero rather than actually “saving” people.
but that’s part of the argument no? If you don’t know what’s going on, why immediately jump to killing that person? If someone is screaming about being hungry and homeless, and the first instinct is to kill them, I’m gonna question your judgement.
Witnesses said he was screaming that he was hungry and thirsty. Funny how you tell me not to rewrite false claims yet you literally just said reports you “heard”.
I am not a marine. But fuck you. If you have no respect for our armed forces, you can peacefully leave this country. Penny is a hero. Also, that bum didn't die of strangulation.
The witness statements kept changing, and caused creditability issues! Based on the video alone, I say he should had been found guilty! I do not know how you do not feel someone dying in your arms!
Does this mean WE can use our autos as tools of retribution? I'll have to get a Caddy. Or a Cybertruck...
The fascism has grown far too quickly here, be prepared for more murders in the name of Fox memes.
So, kneeling on someone’s neck for 6+ minutes is criminal, but a choke for six minutes is fine. I guess the jury was using the WWE standard in arriving at their decision.
It probably didn’t rise to the level of criminality. He didn’t intend to kill the guy, just subdue him, but he was negligent and held on too long. That makes him civilly liable for a number of things, including wrongful death.
I am afraid that in this and other preventable deaths, we are mitigating both the responsibility to care about fatally affecting another life and what the law says should happen when you don't. Refusing to accept a way out is why he should have been found guilty.
That’s a plausible argument. But pinning down the difference between civil penalty and criminal penalty is hard to do in real time. The jury put themselves in Penny’s position and decided they couldn’t know.
What were his intentions? "Eric Gonzalez, a witness to the encounter, testified that he urged Penny to release Neely, offering to help restrain the man’s hands. Gonzalez stated that Penny ignored his suggestion and continued the hold even after Neely stopped resisting."
He was trained, as a military officer testified, that a choke hold is never to be used for more than 3 mins. Was he wearing a watch? 6 minutes is too long.
Not surprised. You wonder why every NYC precinct swung towards Trump (thankfully not enough for him to win NYC). People are tired of apparent lawlessness on the subway. Not condoning or condemning what Penny did (that’s another take). I will say this, Adams needs to go!!
His own doing landed him in the mud through which he got dragged.
He could have stopped killing a person. He did not. Why is that behavior worth making money off?
As a New Yorker, we have a serious issue with people being violent and/or mentally unstable on the trains and in the stations. Quality of life crimes are no longer being prosecuted, and with the bail laws, violent people are being released over and over again.
They say that guy on the train wasn’t armed. But clearly Penny is a hero, that muffin was banana nut. BANANA NUT, I say! Nut allergies are quite common and dangerous.
Jurors take the train too. As a NY subway rider I'm not at all surprised by this. Frankly, it's terrifying at times. Not endorsing, just an observation.
Rittenhouse was chased by a a white man calling him the n word and you guys still defend the actual criminal lmao. He shot a pedo and a rapist. Your parties favorite kind.
Lol quit your nonsense, and in the future avoid making such ridiculous generalized statements.
Both are vigilantes, you're just partial to the former marine because you fall for the politicization of enlisted servicemembers. They are comparable, it shouldn't be that difficult to understand.
True Rittenhouse was on video 1/2 hour before he murdered someone , saying " I hope I get to use this tonight" and using the N-word. Penny overreated, and even if he had been threatened, once the man was down in the hold he should have let go as others were there, he was no longer in any threat.
Yeah, Rittenhouse went out looking for a phony medal of honor & far right gave it to him. Despicable.
I think Penny shouldve switched to double underhooks, maybe a full nelson to block a head butt
no need to stick w such a dangerous hold but also couldnt just let him up if he didnt get surrender.
Comments
Daniel Penny knew exactly what he was doing, he knew he could have loosened his choke hold and kept the victim under control.
Notably, the prosecution didn't have Jiu Jitsu practioner testify
That such testimony was absent is itself a case of legal malpractice
Sometimes jokes/sarcasm r hard to identify when written - sorry I missed your meaning.
Keep fighting the good fight defending the undefensible.
Were you all privy to all the exhibits and testimony?
Monday morning quarter backing seems pointless. He had his day in court and a jury reached a decision.
Irrespective of whether I agree with the jury or not, I will take that day over constant appeals/delays
In that case, the trial only needed the defince closing argument.
Hell, You can just go back to Rittenhouse to see how judges can put their fingers on the scales. I am not saying I agree or disagree - I am saying we either believe in the system or we don’t. It is not mutually exclusive to say it needs improving…
But this is ok?
Favoritism toward a veteran, even though his background (and training) should have been at the top of the list SUPPORTING his guilt (because he knew what he was doing the entire time).
The man chose not to, because he felt, like you probably feel, killing someone is "justice" when that someone is a blight on society.
And he saved people's lives that day!
And no shade, but no one cared when a black veteran was pepper sprayed by a police officer a few years ago. HIS service didn’t matter then. So why should Penny’s?
Penny found Not Guilty.
NY Assassin caught!
GOP says all of Trumps appointments will go through!
Assad Gone!
No More $$ for Ukraine!
Hell of a Monday!
The man was a US Marine and knew damn well that a choke hold of that duration would kill.
Period.
He acted to stop a threat, but once the threat was subdued he should’ve known he was killing him.
He was trained to kill.
Let’s do an experiment: hold your breath and count to 420 Mississippi. Let’s see how far you get.
But guess we’ll never know.
If you push directly against the trachea, it will collapse and a slow death will occur if a tracheotomy or other procedure is not performed.
A layperson can put someone else "to sleep" in under a minute with a few minutes of training, this man was trained in hand to hand combat and knew to the second when the "threat" was eliminated.
Remember, folks: Law&Order™ means no uppity poors, queers, womerns, homeless, sinners or brown folks.
And on a side note, this thread is a great way to identify Xitter drones. Do not engage, just block.
Justice served,
Semper Fi.
Justice is not served when there is a grave involved.
I'm not the one ignoring reality here. Death is permanent. It's not equivalent with justice.
Each his own. I happen to agree with the jury.
At some point, you have to let go.
Guy was struggling against my brother but you would too if you were being choked and couldn't breathe. I saw the color draining. I ripped my brother off. I wasn't letting him go to jail.
Try staying relaxed in a chokehold.
Have you?
For the average person, it is not an easy feat to stay calm, even done by a trained individual. Especially someone that may be having a mental health crisis. Someone that may be prone to panic attacks will be worse off in that situation.
a potential target of a murderer
who has no worry of consequences .. nice !
The fascism has grown far too quickly here, be prepared for more murders in the name of Fox memes.
Derek couldn't argue self-defense Daniel can.
Shocked I say
Amuuurcccaaa
His intentions were good, he acted, he fucked up.
Intercranial lead injections are way quicker… but in nyc guns are illegal for law abiding residents
He could have stopped killing a person. He did not. Why is that behavior worth making money off?
sick verdict
* Jordan Neely *
😒😒😒
Neely didn’t touch anyone, he only yelled at others. Yet he deserved to die.
Penny attacked Neely and (accidentally?) killed him. Yet he’s a hero.
What if someone else intervened, killed Penny and saved Neely? Would that be heroic or murderous?
poor comparison
Rittenhouse deemed himself security w deadly weapon at a protest, falling in w a gang of like minded vigilantes
Penny was going to work & came across a mentally ill person apparently having a frightening fit.
his reaction went to far, but those 2 just dont compare
they are hopelessly skewed and jumbled together
Both are vigilantes, you're just partial to the former marine because you fall for the politicization of enlisted servicemembers. They are comparable, it shouldn't be that difficult to understand.
I "fall for the politicization of enlisted servicemember"?
really?
Wow...your skills of deduction are astounding!
"Dont argue with fools..."
I know, I know.
Later, fool.
I think Penny shouldve switched to double underhooks, maybe a full nelson to block a head butt
no need to stick w such a dangerous hold but also couldnt just let him up if he didnt get surrender.