Rebuilding a policy bench for the next climate effort, and there will be another one: we should make EV credits contingent on easy plug and play home connections and vehicle to grid. - ThreadSky

costasamaras.com • 96 days ago

Rebuilding a policy bench for the next climate effort, and there will be another one: we should make EV credits contingent on easy plug and play home connections and vehicle to grid.

Reposted from Kevin J. Kircher

I'm not that into big trucks, to put it mildly, but the batteries in EV pickups are kind of insane energy resources. The Chevy Silverado's 200 kWh battery can do 10 kW of vehicle-to-home discharging, which is enough to power a typical home for a full week. Wild.

www.caranddriver.com/news/a607558...

Comments

lagahoo.bsky.social•96 days ago

We should be shifting funding towards better mass transit systems in towns and cities across the country. Building serious bike infrastructure and making cities walkable. Jumping from one harmful resource (fossil fuels) to others (cobalt etc) is just another capitalistic answer to the climate issue.

costasamaras.com•96 days ago

Respectfully we need to be doing way more active transport, transit, and passenger vehicle electrification actions than anyone has ever imagined or we won’t meet any climate targets

lagahoo.bsky.social•96 days ago

And this doesn’t even include the need to redesign cities & towns with more mixed-use development. And start to steer away (pun intended) from these car focused residential & town designs. There’s so much work that needs to be done to ever meet any of these climate targets. It feels insurmountable.

alexmames.bsky.social•96 days ago

Right, like, even in the most transit-friendly systems (Japan, Netherlands) with dense populations and decades of transit investment, something like half of passenger miles are still personal automobile. “Electrify everything” needs to include personal EVs or it won’t work

lagahoo.bsky.social•96 days ago

I do acknowledge this but I can’t help but taking into consideration, the often overlooked cost of electrifying everything. I don’t bring it up to be contrarian or to argue that the status quo is correct. I just that in these conversations that side of the equation is often overlooked.

honestcanadian.bsky.social•94 days ago

We should do EV credits based on weight.
Its nice to think there are good uses for those massive batteries but for the once or twice a year that comes in handy doesn't offset the massive footprint.

costasamaras.com•94 days ago

You might enjoy this paper we wrote about this in Nature magazine https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02760-8

honestcanadian.bsky.social•94 days ago

Looks interesting, I'll give it a read.
The only thing is doing that will be counter to solving one of the problems people have with BEVs - range.
Of course we could stop fighting against the cleaner and lighter option of clean hydrogen and FCEVs.

jjgetz.bsky.social•93 days ago

I think that’s a slippery slope, and could possibly reduce EV adoption. If I lived in an area that had frequent outages then yeah, sounds reasonable. But maybe I already have standby generators in place. What if I rarely lose power for any significant amount of time?

grahamj.bsky.social•96 days ago

Many people are saying!

willparker.bsky.social•96 days ago

Definitely.

Another way to push auto mfrs that way is to build a plug and play V2G/H widget that just draws power from any 12V battery terminals (ICE & portable included)

It would be clunky and limited by the OBC output, maybe 1-2kW, but could kickstart demand for free/integrated/high power V2X

willparker.bsky.social•96 days ago

Automakers are all busy trying to build walled gardens around their batteries and sell $10k interconnection kits and OnStar V2G plans.

A vendor-independent way to bypass mfr barriers would kill that business plan pretty fast and make V2X much more accessible.

sjorissen.bsky.social•96 days ago

With Elon hanging out in the White House, don’t expect incentives for this. He wants to sell you a car battery AND a home battery.

theoverheadwire.com•96 days ago

I’ve been wondering why we should support people carrying their home batteries around with them everywhere for trips they may do a few times a year at best.

lucastosborne.bsky.social•96 days ago

📌

meadekrosby.bsky.social•96 days ago

100%. It’s wild to me they don’t all have this already - it’s such a no-brainer.

bslotterback.bsky.social•96 days ago

And/or make any federal $ to utilities contingent on them deploying programs at scale

ianwalker.bsky.social•96 days ago

... without also accidentally incentivising people to drive around in massive oversized vehicles

costasamaras.com•96 days ago

agreed, we have some policy recommendations for that https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02760-8

wombat-ee.bsky.social•96 days ago

V2G needs some careful work on the compensation structure side. Too little and the additional battery wear won't be worth it to most owners, too much and it becomes the case of non-V2G customers who can't afford fancy EVs subsidizing people who can.

costasamaras.com•96 days ago

need to do an update of my colleague’s foundational paper on this https://cedmcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Lithium-ion-battery-cell-degradation-resulting-from-realistic-vehicle-and-vehicle-to-grid-utilization.pdf

gspeng.bsky.social•96 days ago

When can I buy an Fe Air home battery? I am afraid to have a large Li-ion battery in my garage over living space in a wood frame townhouse

moonwick.lasthome.net•96 days ago

You might also consider LFP! It doesn't have the same, ahhh, spiciness problem as regular lithium-ion.

samebenergy.bsky.social•96 days ago

My opinion is V2L for backup power is interesting enough to consumers that this will pervade *long* before most utilities figure out V2G programs or tariffs.

I've talked to enough normies whose ears perk up when I say they could use their car instead of buying a generator that I think it's real

wombat-ee.bsky.social•96 days ago

Yeah I'm a big fan of V2L as a direct replacement for home backup generators. That's a sales pitch that'll work on anyone. But loaning out your battery to the utility shouldn't be a requirement for reasonably priced power in your home.

alexmames.bsky.social•96 days ago

I think it works out fine if you require the grid (or VPP, or whatever) operator to chip in for battery replacement when the time comes, proportional to the estimated V2G contribution to battery degradation. Could even autodeposit all V2G earnings in an interest-bearing battery replacement fund

wombat-ee.bsky.social•96 days ago

Still needs to not be an additional cost on regular utility customers. Can't cost significantly more than dedicated grid-side generation and storage. Otherwise you're just wasting the customers' money buying less electricity for the same price.

gspeng.bsky.social•96 days ago

And principally benefitting (providing backup electricity) the subsidy recipients at the expense of everyone else

alexmames.bsky.social•96 days ago

Yeah, no subsidies, market price or nothing. Hopefully we've all learned enough from CA's NEM 1.0/2.0/... cross-subsidies to avoid the same mistake for something that's not even generating clean electricity.

alexmames.bsky.social•96 days ago

Yeah, I agree, it should only be purchased when the cost is lower than other alternatives available to utilities

alexmames.bsky.social•96 days ago

No subsidies/etc. for V2G operation, tho - pay the market-clearing price and leave it at that. If the grid operator can't square the fractional replacement cost + recharge cost against the market price, then it's a bad deal and shouldn't be purchased.

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